new saiga .223 carbine - problem

T

Trajan

New member
got a saiga .223 carbine a couple months ago. Have only had it at the range a few times so far. The first couple times it functioned perfectly. The last couple times it has a problem...

when I have a full mag inserted, and I chamber the first round, it fires fine. However, the next round will not fire. When I eject the round, and chamber the next, it fires. It's now a "single shot"... :(

I got it because I thought the saiga/ak action was reliable like a tank. I'm pretty disappointed though. I'm going to call the dealer about it, and maybe bring it in.

Thought I'd mention it here first in case anybody has any ideas. It is stock as out of the box, except that I put a side mount on it and a scope. Malfunction happens with scope on or scope off. Ammo I am using is Federal M193 mil-spec, and Wolf steel case stuff.

Oh yeah, when I eject the rounds that did not fire, they have a slight mark in the middle of the primer, like the FP was just barely hitting them... or maybe the FP normally "dimples" the primers while chambering. Whatever the case, my saiga will not fire semi-auto...
 
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When the next round does not fire, do you hear a click with no ignition? as in the hammer is falling but not with enough force?

Or more likely, do you just pull the trigger and get nothing, no click or anything?

To me, if the second scenario happens, coupled with with small dent on primer, I'd say during recoil your hammer is not being held in position by the hook, letting the hammer simply ride the bolt carrier back to the forward position, which would take away the needed force to dent the primer enough for ignition.

As to what would cause this, its hard to say without looking at it. Its odd that your first round works fine. Obviously the hammer is being held back properly when you manually chamber a round, so maybe the trigger parts are on the borderline of locking up properly, and maybe the extra jarring of a round cycling the action keeps them from engaging.

I'm no pro, but if you're anywhere near north MS I could try to have a look at it for you.
 
there is a tiny click, but I know right away that it is not going to fire, since the trigger is not back to where it normally is (a little forward). After the first shot the trigger is still back towards the back, and I can pull it a tiny bit back, and there is a slight click, but nothing happens.

first time at the range it worked fine - Federal M193 ammo. Second time at the range I shot a bunch of my leftover handloads from my AR-15 days - they also functioned perfectly.

Last two times, I have this problem. Guess I need to call the dealer and tell him. He is one of the top gunsmiths in the city from what I hear. Hope its free. About 2 months ago I guess I bought it.
 
Trajan, I would get it back to the dealer pronto. Mine is a no nonsense, gonno work no matter what, weapon. NO,,FTF. none.
Just shoots.
elkman06
 
let us know how it goes... it hurts my pride to see any AK fail. Although I generally dont hold it against them unless its an original configuration gun
 
will try to take it to the dealer this week. wanted to ask here first in case it might be something others have encountered or maybe something my fault.

This has kind of soured me on semis - bolt actions make up the majority of my collection.
 
Dont let it sour you man. You really do have an unusual AK. Everybody I know that has them has had flawless reliability. Maybe you just got a lemon... Good luck with it
 
I can't even begin to tell you how rare it is for a Saiga to malfunction like that. Definitely very odd. I wonder if something got stuck in the firing pin channel like what happened with my SKS.
 
are the little marks in the centers of the primers from a free floating firing pin and the force of the chambering?

This is my first ak style rifle, so I'm an ak noob.
 
Still sounds to me like the hammer is riding the bolt back forward. This would give enough force to make a small mark on the primer but not enought force for ignition. This is a good thing though, because if that did allow it to ignite Im pretty sure you'd have a "runaway gun"... one that shoots full auto until empty.
 
oops I was wrong in my previous statement about not owning any other ak style rifles. I have owned an sks for 20 years - never one single problem with it, ever. I forgot about it since I haven't shot it in years.
 
Take the topcover off. Take out the bolt carrier. Look at the hammer and trigger.
Make sure that the legs of the hammer spring are located properly....do a google search for install AK FCG for picks of the proper orientation.
 
Mine has been dead reliable.

These guns are super, super easy to take apart and inspect. if you need i would be happy to open mine up and take pics so you can look and compare. mine is still in stock configuration.


also where you lopcated? might try a local gun forum to see if anyone near you has the same rifle
 
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saiga 223

Have had mine for 10 yrs and converted it to AK style and it has never missed a beat firing or ejecting. In my whole life i have only seen one bad AK failing to fire and it was a Sar-3 in 223 i bought used cost me another $300 to get it right. The smith who worked on it said the headspace was off enough to what called a short fire. anyway it shoots now pretty good.It wasnt hitting the second rd hard enough. I have seen some AKs hit to hard on the primer. My Saiga is pretty accurate for a .223 or 5.56 much better than my 7.62x39 but i believe its the round more than anything else. when i bought it at Dunhams several yrs ago it cost $189.98 plus tax, should have bought a dozen at the time. when i bought it i had never heard of them just bought it as a beater truck rifle and it has served me well with a red dot on top.
 
I've aLready taken it apart and everything Looked ok..i aLso took it to a shop and they said the firing pin spring was a bit off which was causing the extractor to not catch the next round, they fixed the spring and cLeaned it..when i went out this morning to test it, the probLem was stiLL there.
 
AK's do in fact fail. I have made them failed, and our smiths have repaired quite a few of them, from cheapo WASR's to Saigas. They are man made after all, but god forbid someone argues against the myth on the internet.:rolleyes:

Take it back to the shop. It sounds like what was said above... the hammer is not catching and following the bolt carrier back. You are lucky it didn't have the force to fire it again, because that's when the whole mag dumps and you can get injured. Take it to a gun smith... even more so one familiar with the AK. Store clerks are very knowledgeable... but they still aren't a certified smith.
 
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