New S&W 686 quality?

R

Rail Gun

New member
The other day I was looking at some new smith and wesson 686's. One particularly caught my attention. A 686+ 7 shooter with a 5" barrel. I noticed that there was some discoloration of the metal on the hammer and the trigger. The trigger also didn't feel quite as smooth as other smith's I've seen. It had a plastic orange front sight, it is also a 7 shooter instead of a 6. I thought the orange front sight was kinda cheesy and was wondering about the metal discoloration of the trigger and hammer. The price was $490.

What's going on with the metal discoloration on the trigger and hammer? Is the new smith quality in the toilet or does it matter.
 
The funky color on the trigger and hammer are normal. I am told it's because they switched to MIM process to cast the parts. You can take them out and buff them up with light polishing (like with chrome polish) and they look very good. Not too much because I think they are surface hardened parts.

As for newer gun quality? I have a four year old 686 and a year old 66 and I also noticed the workmanship (and trigger) were not quite as good on the newer gun (still better than the Taurus guns I compared it to). I suspect it's because of SW's dire financial position. When businesses get hurt for cash, quality is always the first casualty... if it shoots, ship it! I have seen worse problems in some of the other wheel gun makers, so SW is hardly alone on that.
 
Do NOT polish the trigger or hammer.

The mottled appearance is the result of case-hardening, also called color case-hardening. Polishing it off softens the surface of the part exposing it to accelerated wear-and-tear. BTW, if you look at older, blued-steel Smiths, you will note the same characteristic on their hammers and triggers. It's not exactly a new, or novel process.;)

MIM construction is new, however, with regard to S&W parts. Rather than cutting or milling the parts out of a little block of forged steel, they are molded in a special process. Powdered steel is forced into a special mold along with some sort molten polymer binder. Then it's heated until the binder evaporates. The metal fuses together on a molecular level(I think), and the part actually shrinks down to its proper size.

The sights are easily replaced with many varieties available. Unfortunately, these 5" models are all of post-agreement manufacture, TTBOMK. :(
 
VictorLouis, I think you described what sintered metal is.
MIM stands for Metal Injection Molding, which is exactly what is sounds like. Molten metal is injected into a mold, like plastic molding. The result is supposed to have 97% of the density of forged metal. It doesn't have the stresses on it that milling a solid billet would produce.
Some don't like either process, feeling that the finished product lacks the strength of forged metal.
 
I have a one of the 5" 686P Hi-Viz revolvers. I paid $399 NIB for it. It may not be as good as earlier Smith's (I have no experience with earlier Smith's, so I can't say), but I have no complaints about the one that I have.
 
In the last year I've seen a number of new S&W revolvers--mostly Mountain Guns but also some 66's and a 686 or two--with one or more annoying problems. These are problems like poor timing, an excessive or uneven barrel/cylinder gap, a burred edge inside the forcing cone, a rough or creepy SA trigger, an extractor that sticks in the open position, or a canted front sight. S&W's lousy politics aside, I would really like to have bought a .45 LC Mountain Gun and a 5-inch 686 with Hi-Viz sights, if the particular guns I saw hadn't had such problems right out of the box.

I think there are good recent S&W revolvers out there. But finding them requires careful looking and leaves too much to luck.

My $0.02.
 
I own a Smith & Wesson 686-5 with a 6" barrel. The only
major complaint is the double-action isn't as smooth as I
would like.:eek: That is not really as important to me as
the SA mode; which just happens to be "slick as a baby's
butt".:) Timing, cylinder gap, forcing cone, and red front
sight insert seem to be satisfactory. I just wish that this
great firearm's firm had not decided to "round butt" all
their revolver's.:) :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
Case Hardening

It is true that you don't want to do much rubbing on a hammer or trigger since they are case hardened. However, I was able to remove the mottled surface discoloration with some light rubbing using fine polish compound and a cloth. The surface then appeared like matte SS. I think the mottling is a surface effect. Anyway, the polishing was light enough it could not have removed even a tenth of a thousandth of material. I have about 15k rounds through the gun and see no unusual wear.
 
I took the mim hammer and trigger out of two s&w guns that I recently got, and polished them with Flitz. The parts turned out looking like stainless. It appeared to be more of a coating than hardening on the parts. The color rubbed right off with very little effort.
 
croyance, thanks for clarifying my oversight.
MIM stands for Metal Injection Molding...
Click to expand...

However, this process
Molten metal is injected into a mold, like plastic molding.
Click to expand...
is describing casting, such as done by Ruger. The powdered metal and the liquid binder are separate in the MIM process. IIRC, true sintering was used by Dan Wesson on their small parts. The difference, AFAIK, is that the metal fuses together under pressure, and possibly heat.

This is also true:
The result is supposed to have 97% of the density of forged metal.
Click to expand...
I don't believe parts of sintered construction are anywhere near as strong. :confused:

I didn' know that
It doesn't have the stresses on it that milling a solid billet would produce.
Click to expand...
; but, I'll take your word on it. :) Also, it's only feasible for small parts, like safety levers, or slide stops also. Whole frames cannot be constructed as Ruger does with castings.
 
MR.G: I am pretty sure you are right about that. When I got my Model 66, all I did was hand rub the hammer and trigger with a little chrome polish on a cloth and they also came up looking like matte stainless. Because they are MIM, they have the rough surface texture and it is real obvious no metal was removed. I think the dark mottling is a surface oxidation that rubs off fairly easily.:p
 
What I have found is that the frame of the new stainless s&w guns do not shine like the old ones when polished. A couple of hand polishes with Flitz on the older ones makes them look like nickel. The new ones that I have still look dull after polishing.
In comparison, I bought a new Ruger GP100 stainless two weeks ago and lightly polished it . Bright finish, really looks great.
 
Metal Injection Molding

From www.metalbot.com, the Talbot company's web site, a description of Metal Injection Molding (MIM):

"Very fine metal powder, combined with binder material, is injected into a die. Part is ejected, the binder is melted or dissolved, and vacuum sintered, resulting in a part 94-99% of theoretical density."

MIM parts are hard and tough under pressure, but thinner parts do not seem to stand up to strain as well as forged parts. For example, MIM barrel bushings for 1911 type pistols have broken at the skirt, releasing the spring plug. Safeties, on the other hand, have proven excellent.

Jim
 
What does the new internal lock do, if anything, to the trigger action? I know when S&W switched to the transfer bar firing pin, the trigger weight increased by 25% if smoothed by a pistolsmith.
 
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