New Rifle, What can be causing this at 20 yards?
- Thread starter snowy
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g.willikers
New member
Yeah, size check the bullets and your barrel.
That ain't right.
That ain't right.
The barrel may well be a .400 Whelen and the bullets don't fill the hole in the barrel. That's happened before with someone shooting a .270 Win. round in a .30-06 chambered barrel.
Measure the bore diameter at the muzzle with calipers and you'll find out.
Or, believe it or not, someone put smaller caliber rounds in that box.
Measure the bore diameter at the muzzle with calipers and you'll find out.
Or, believe it or not, someone put smaller caliber rounds in that box.
I don't think so. If anything you'd need lighter (shorter) bullets. Even though 180's are light for caliber, since they're TSX (all copper) they're fairly long for weight.
A heavier bullet would require a tighter twist to stabilize and would be more likely to tumble. You wont get sideways bullets with light bullets unless they're not engaging the rifling, which could be a possibility. But, chances are, that heavier bullets wont engage either since their diameter is no bigger.
How's the crown look?
Also something that confuses me...Barnes only makes one .35 cal 180 grain bullet and it's the TTSX, not TSX. And it's a boat tail. Your box says FB, which I assume is flat based. That's throwing me off a little.
Have you tried any other ammo through this rifle? What are the results with it? I'm maybe thinking that the factory may have mistakenly loaded some 8mm or .338 cal bullets instead of .35's in this particular box. Or your bore is oversized for some reason.
Take one of those bullets out of the box and try inserting the bullet into the muzzle of the gun being careful not to damage the crown. See if it slides in easily, or doesn't touch the rifling at all. The bullet should not slip into the barrel easily.
A heavier bullet would require a tighter twist to stabilize and would be more likely to tumble. You wont get sideways bullets with light bullets unless they're not engaging the rifling, which could be a possibility. But, chances are, that heavier bullets wont engage either since their diameter is no bigger.
How's the crown look?
Also something that confuses me...Barnes only makes one .35 cal 180 grain bullet and it's the TTSX, not TSX. And it's a boat tail. Your box says FB, which I assume is flat based. That's throwing me off a little.
Have you tried any other ammo through this rifle? What are the results with it? I'm maybe thinking that the factory may have mistakenly loaded some 8mm or .338 cal bullets instead of .35's in this particular box. Or your bore is oversized for some reason.
Take one of those bullets out of the box and try inserting the bullet into the muzzle of the gun being careful not to damage the crown. See if it slides in easily, or doesn't touch the rifling at all. The bullet should not slip into the barrel easily.
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Quote:
I checked the barrel and it's stamped 35 Whelen.
SNOWY: It don't make much difference what is stamped on the barrel, something ain't right.
Either the bullets are too small for the caliber or the bore is too large for the bullets.
STOP shooting the thing until you figure it out.
Is the barrel a standard or custom made barrel?
It's very possible it was bored to .400 Whelen as mentioned.
I checked the barrel and it's stamped 35 Whelen.
SNOWY: It don't make much difference what is stamped on the barrel, something ain't right.
Either the bullets are too small for the caliber or the bore is too large for the bullets.
STOP shooting the thing until you figure it out.
Is the barrel a standard or custom made barrel?
It's very possible it was bored to .400 Whelen as mentioned.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
That's got nothing to do with any normal consideration like too heavy bullets.
Nothing normal causes bullets to tumble at such short distance.
As suggested, there's something much more abnormal happening.
Nothing normal causes bullets to tumble at such short distance.
As suggested, there's something much more abnormal happening.
Is the rifle only new to you, or new out of the box? If it's new out of the box, it should be chambered for what it claims to be. Measure a fired and an unfired case and compare; they shouldn't differ by more than a few thou at the mouth and neck. Post the lengths and diameters at mouth, neck and base of shoulder of the fired case; I or someone else with "Cartridges of the World" can run a cross check if things are way different. that's bizarre. I'm inclined to take it back & get it looked at professionally if I were you.
g.willikers
New member
Isn't Barnes Bullets still in the same place, with the same staff as before?
In a recent podcast interview, unless I misunderstood (who me?), the only change was the name of the owners.
In a recent podcast interview, unless I misunderstood (who me?), the only change was the name of the owners.
Keyholing usually is caused by a bullet too long for the twist rate of the barrel. I'd check your twist rate with a tight patch and cleaning rod it's very easy to do. Once you find out what the twist is we can better help you.
Saw it's a Handi Rifle, this should be easy to diagnose.
Saw it's a Handi Rifle, this should be easy to diagnose.
I'm wondering whether the barrel stamped .35 Whelen may be a .444 Marlin barrel in disguise, even chambered for .35 Whelen.
=========================================================
Check this out:
There's a service notice to dealers on the 35 Whelen FTF issue, it also includes some 35 Remingtons, the #72541 is a 35 Rem/444 Marlin combo.
I recommend anyone needing service for their H&R, 35 Whelen or otherwise, to call H&R and ask for a return shipping label so they can cover the cost of shipping to them, they don't advertise that they do this, but always do when asked, this is for any warranty service.
https://www.ellettbrothers.com/uploa...elendealer.pdf
Service Notice
9/13/10
To: H&R 1871 Dealers
Subject: 35 Whelen Handi-rifle
H&R 1871 has recently identified a small number of Handi-rifles in 35 Whelen caliber produced between
March 2010 and September 1st that could fail to fire under normal shooting conditions. This malfunction
presents no danger to the shooter, and the outcome is simply the firearm may fail to fire. The necessary
repair changes have been identified to correct this malfunction.
The affected guns are limited to the following H&R skus: 72540, 72612, 72412, 72614, 70705, 72541
If you have a customer return a H&R 35 Whelen rifle, and they have experienced a “fails to fire,” please
have the rifle returned to:
H&R 1871
Attn: Arm Service
14 Hoefler Ave
Ilion, NY 13357
We will make the necessary repair adjustments to the rifle at no charge and return to the sender as
expeditiously as possible.
Any rifles that you have received after September 15th, were produced with the corrective actions in place
and this malfunction should not be an issue on these rifles.
If you have any questions or if we can be of further service to you, please feel free to contact us at 1-866-
776-9292, prompt 4, Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm EST. Please check out our website at www.hr1871.com
Thank you,
Consumer Service Division
H&R 1871
=========================================================
Check this out:
There's a service notice to dealers on the 35 Whelen FTF issue, it also includes some 35 Remingtons, the #72541 is a 35 Rem/444 Marlin combo.
I recommend anyone needing service for their H&R, 35 Whelen or otherwise, to call H&R and ask for a return shipping label so they can cover the cost of shipping to them, they don't advertise that they do this, but always do when asked, this is for any warranty service.
https://www.ellettbrothers.com/uploa...elendealer.pdf
Service Notice
9/13/10
To: H&R 1871 Dealers
Subject: 35 Whelen Handi-rifle
H&R 1871 has recently identified a small number of Handi-rifles in 35 Whelen caliber produced between
March 2010 and September 1st that could fail to fire under normal shooting conditions. This malfunction
presents no danger to the shooter, and the outcome is simply the firearm may fail to fire. The necessary
repair changes have been identified to correct this malfunction.
The affected guns are limited to the following H&R skus: 72540, 72612, 72412, 72614, 70705, 72541
If you have a customer return a H&R 35 Whelen rifle, and they have experienced a “fails to fire,” please
have the rifle returned to:
H&R 1871
Attn: Arm Service
14 Hoefler Ave
Ilion, NY 13357
We will make the necessary repair adjustments to the rifle at no charge and return to the sender as
expeditiously as possible.
Any rifles that you have received after September 15th, were produced with the corrective actions in place
and this malfunction should not be an issue on these rifles.
If you have any questions or if we can be of further service to you, please feel free to contact us at 1-866-
776-9292, prompt 4, Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm EST. Please check out our website at www.hr1871.com
Thank you,
Consumer Service Division
H&R 1871
6.5swedeforelk
New member
Snowy, sure you're not giving us a "snow job"?
I've seen lots of tumbling bullet holes, but be darned if I've ever seen one with each bullet hitting the target perfectly parallel to it!!
Looks more like they were laid on & hammered thru.
April 1 ?
I've seen lots of tumbling bullet holes, but be darned if I've ever seen one with each bullet hitting the target perfectly parallel to it!!
Looks more like they were laid on & hammered thru.
April 1 ?
Plugged in the data to Berger's twist calculator. The 1:16 twist has a Stability factor of 1.30 @ 0 degrees Fahrenheit, sea level with Barnes current 180 grain .358 cal bullet. This is considered 'marginally stable' but should NOT be key holing @ 20 yards, like the OP's picture is showing.
1:18.5 will NOT stabilize that bullet, as Taylor stated. It has a stability factor of .974 in those same conditions.
My best guess is it's a bore/bullet mismatch causing the bullet to not engage the rifling. Could you recover any of those bullets? If you can check for rifling impressions. It could be a .357 barrel with a slow twist that was mistakenly used, too.
1:18.5 will NOT stabilize that bullet, as Taylor stated. It has a stability factor of .974 in those same conditions.
My best guess is it's a bore/bullet mismatch causing the bullet to not engage the rifling. Could you recover any of those bullets? If you can check for rifling impressions. It could be a .357 barrel with a slow twist that was mistakenly used, too.
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