Just bought my son a new Rem model 799 in 22/250. When you put a round in and try to close the bolt it's brutal. Very hard to close, I'm a purdy big feller and it takes all I've got to shut it. Sometimes it wont shut and I have to keep tryin till it does . Once you do get it chambered it shoots and ejects fine. Anyone know why. I've cleaned it and we have shot about 20 rounds thru it. Thanks in advance.
New Rem 799 bolt trouble
- Thread starter Kendo
- Start date
Basics first. Check the chambering stamp on the barrel to be sure it actually has .22-250 stamped on there, and not some shorter round? Make sure your box of cartridges say the same thing. I watched a guy fire several .308's in a .30-06 chamber one day. He brought me the now-neckless fired cases and asked if that looked normal? His buddy had lent him the rifle for hunting season, telling him it was .308. A look at the barrel stamping said .30-06.
Next basic is to be sure this is new factory ammo and not the neck-sized reloads from some other person's more generously chambered gun. It's a good policy never to trust someone else's reloads unless you were there helping put them together.
Assuming the case and barrel markings match and these rounds are factory new, it then just sounds like the chamber is way short. The engagement surfaces in the bolt and receiver usually can cam a tight cartridge in a little which resizes it into the chamber. The hazard is if that goes too far, the neck will lengthen and jam against the end of the neck portion of the chamber, crimping the neck hard against the bullet and creating a high pressure condition when it tries to let go of the bullet during firing.
If you have a friend who reloads and who owns a cartridge headspace comparator, he can measure the headspace in the new cartridges and verify they are normal and not defective. He can then measure the headspace of your fired cases. If your fired rounds have shorter headspace than the new ones, the short chamber is your problem. At that point you have to choose between sending it to the factory for free repair or taking it to the local gunsmith to run a reamer in and correct the headspace. The former is probably less expensive, depending on what kind of shipping rate you get? The latter is likely faster, though that depends on the gunsmith. Personally, I prefer to make the factory cover their own misdeeds. Theoretically that helps them keep their QA system updated which helps the rest of us down the road.
Next basic is to be sure this is new factory ammo and not the neck-sized reloads from some other person's more generously chambered gun. It's a good policy never to trust someone else's reloads unless you were there helping put them together.
Assuming the case and barrel markings match and these rounds are factory new, it then just sounds like the chamber is way short. The engagement surfaces in the bolt and receiver usually can cam a tight cartridge in a little which resizes it into the chamber. The hazard is if that goes too far, the neck will lengthen and jam against the end of the neck portion of the chamber, crimping the neck hard against the bullet and creating a high pressure condition when it tries to let go of the bullet during firing.
If you have a friend who reloads and who owns a cartridge headspace comparator, he can measure the headspace in the new cartridges and verify they are normal and not defective. He can then measure the headspace of your fired cases. If your fired rounds have shorter headspace than the new ones, the short chamber is your problem. At that point you have to choose between sending it to the factory for free repair or taking it to the local gunsmith to run a reamer in and correct the headspace. The former is probably less expensive, depending on what kind of shipping rate you get? The latter is likely faster, though that depends on the gunsmith. Personally, I prefer to make the factory cover their own misdeeds. Theoretically that helps them keep their QA system updated which helps the rest of us down the road.
They are both definatly 22/250. I was shootin the cheap Rem white box stuff. You know a couple of rounds went in almost normal the more I think about it. but mostly they didn't ,you had to fight like hell to get the bolt closed. I dont know if yall have ever seen these rifles or not but they have a small bolt handle anyway. I dont have any of the spent casings to compare either. how bad would it be to try to shoot it again?
With the potential for a pressure hazard, I would drop by a gunsmith and have him put a headspace gauge in to check that it's OK, first? If it isn't the headspace, it may be something else he'll see? You could take some of the ammo with you for him to look at, though it is improbable that the ammo has a problem.
I've handled about a dozen new ones from Interarms, Charles Daly, and Remington over the years. They all had bolts that jammed easily, even when empty. If I pushed the bolt handle ball parallel to the barrel direction, the bolt would not close. When I pushed the ball more toward the chamber, the bolt would close. This was all without a cartridge. The Remingtons were worst.
To test this, try closing the bolt, with cartridge in the magazine, by pushing on the rear of the bolt, not the handle. Use the handle only to rotate the bolt closed. I predict the cartridges will chamber without excessive force.
Sit in front of the TV and operate the bolt (rifle empty) several hundred times to smooth it up.
Bruce
To test this, try closing the bolt, with cartridge in the magazine, by pushing on the rear of the bolt, not the handle. Use the handle only to rotate the bolt closed. I predict the cartridges will chamber without excessive force.
Sit in front of the TV and operate the bolt (rifle empty) several hundred times to smooth it up.
Bruce
There are a number of possibilities,but I wonder..
The 799 is a mini-mauser with an extractor that is not the conventional mauser extrctor.Maybe it acts like a push feed and easily snaps over a rim,but some extrctors,like mausers and 1911's,don't work that way.Some must be fed up from the magazine,so the cartridge feeds under the extractor.Forcing the extractor in those firearms is brutal,and likely to damage the extractor.
I can't say for sure,but try putting the round in the mag,even to just shoot one.If that goes easy,everything is as it should be.
Also,I don't know,does it have a plunger ejector? Sometimes when a product has a hole drilled in it,not all the drill chips get cleared out of the hole before assembly.If a plunger ejector does get bound up,it would hold things open.
The 799 is a mini-mauser with an extractor that is not the conventional mauser extrctor.Maybe it acts like a push feed and easily snaps over a rim,but some extrctors,like mausers and 1911's,don't work that way.Some must be fed up from the magazine,so the cartridge feeds under the extractor.Forcing the extractor in those firearms is brutal,and likely to damage the extractor.
I can't say for sure,but try putting the round in the mag,even to just shoot one.If that goes easy,everything is as it should be.
Also,I don't know,does it have a plunger ejector? Sometimes when a product has a hole drilled in it,not all the drill chips get cleared out of the hole before assembly.If a plunger ejector does get bound up,it would hold things open.
Hibc you are right its a push feed it's a modified mouser smaller action.bcp you know you might be onto something also. As I said earlier the bolt handle is very small and I have a full sized varmint type scope on it. Me and my son both have fairly large hands, Maybe the problem. Some one suggested to me to mark a round with a marker also and check to see how bad, or if it was under pressure or wedged at all. So if it's not to tight it may just be the way we are running the bolt. If thats it what would I do with the bolt ? Is there something I could do to the handle to make it longer? Thanks
What HiBC is referring to is called positive feed. The rim surrounding the bolt face is cut away on bottom so a cartridge rim slides up into the extractor claw. A push feed bolt and extractor surround the rim completely and the extractor snaps over it whether it is magazine fed or single-loaded. A Mauser 98, for example, is a positive feed, while a Remington 600 is a push feed. A positive feed can be very hard to close on a singly-loaded round. A push feed should not be.
Marking the case is a good idea. Taking a dowel rod or a brass rod and pushing the ejector in is a good idea, though I think you would see an ejector mark on the case if that were not working correctly? I think it is more likely you will find heavy marking by the ejector, or, as discussed earlier, a headspace problem.
Marking the case is a good idea. Taking a dowel rod or a brass rod and pushing the ejector in is a good idea, though I think you would see an ejector mark on the case if that were not working correctly? I think it is more likely you will find heavy marking by the ejector, or, as discussed earlier, a headspace problem.
OK heres what I did. I worked the bolt for probably 45 min. Then marked a round with a marker and tried to close the bolt it would not close . So I put it in the mag and quickly and forcefully moved the bolt forward..LOCK UP!! Ejected it no markings where the marker was so it dont seem to be binding,rubbing.I tried it again and again worked every time when picked up from the mag. So now what do I do about the little bolt handle? Any suggestions? And by the way, thanks to everone that put in on the original question.
What do you do with that little bolt handle????
Give your son his rifle back and let him shoot it
Just kidding.
The feeding from the mag ,then,is what the gun was designed to do,it is not a work around.If you do not handload to extreme and dangerous pressures,the bolt should open easily,
I'd say,shoot it,and maybe you will get used to that handle.Have fun
Give your son his rifle back and let him shoot it
Just kidding.
The feeding from the mag ,then,is what the gun was designed to do,it is not a work around.If you do not handload to extreme and dangerous pressures,the bolt should open easily,
I'd say,shoot it,and maybe you will get used to that handle.Have fun
You could do this:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2160683
Pages 5, 10, 12 have more custom Mini-Mauser photos.
Bruce
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2160683
Pages 5, 10, 12 have more custom Mini-Mauser photos.
Bruce
Or maybe I could do like HiBC said and just give my kid back his gun. Thanks again guys.