New Reloader Question

[roo7171]

All,

I will be loading some 40 caliber next weekend; this will be the first time I’ve ever reloaded, so I want to make sure I’m going about it correctly.

Use is for target shooting/USPA/IDPA
40 S&W
Mixed one shot brass – mostly Federal but some Winchester mixed in / shot out of a Glock 23
Brass case lengths are fine and I’ll measure them as I go
HSM Plated Flat Point Bullets / 165 gn
Power Pistol
COL will be 1.120 (Per manufacturer)
CCI small pistol primers

I will be resizing the brass in a GR-X carbide resizing die in a separate single stage press to remove the bulge. I have since replaced the stock barrel on my Glock 23 to a Lone Wolf barrel.

I am using a Lee loadmaster (yeah, I like to be challenged). I separated the de-priming and sizing into two dies so that I resize along with the priming step. I guess this is more reliable with the Lee press and keeps the brass stable while priming occurs. Using the Lee universal d de-priming die in stage 1 as well.

I’ve already set the priming depth and it feels pretty good, not flush but slightly below. Compared to factory Federal 165gn/red box, it feels the same. I noted that the Winchester factory 165gn/white box have has it set a bit lower than Federal.

Also not crimping during the bullet seating step – got the Lee factory crimp die for that.

I do realize plated bullets are softer so I am making sure that I expand the brass enough to not cut into the bullet during seating. That and making sure I don’t over crimp the bullet.

My main concern is the powder charge. I understand that plated falls in-between a cast and jacketed bullets – so maybe on the safe side consider it cast for a starting load.

Just having trouble finding data for this – I obviously don’t want any chunky-badness happening like damaging myself or the gun. Don’t want a bullet stuck in the pipe either.

Per Lee / Pro Auto-Disk for Power Pistol, I have these charges to look at: 6.0, 6.4, 6.9
I should have the adjustable charge bar soon so I could use that to do more precise measuring.

I was thinking maybe the 6.0 or 6.4 would be fine. With that said though … still doing more research and want to finish reading the Lyman book first before I get started.

THANKS for any advice given!

-roo

 

[Unclenick]

Welcome to the forum.

What load level plated bullets can stand seems to vary by make. Get HSM's recommendation. Indeed, they might have load data for you. Lyman's Handbook has a flat point TMJ 165 running on 6.3 to 7.0 grains of Power Pistol. That bullet's probably a good type to base your loads on.

Check the depths of the primer pockets in your cases. Measure the primer height (including the anvil feet; not just the cup) for your box of primers. For CCI primers I would subtract three thousandths, then subtract the result from the primer pocket depth. The final number should be how many thousandths below flush with the case head you want the seated primer to be, plus or minus a thousandth.

That three thousandths is how much the anvil will be compressed down into the cup. This is called setting the bridge or primer reconsolidation. Different makes have somewhat different values, and you could call CCI and ask what they recommend for the particular primer you are using. The values I gave just fall within limits I've seen for other makes. Olin and Remington used to recommend 0.002-0.006 inch reconsolidation. Federal has given 0.002 in for small rifle primers and 0.003 in for large rifle primers and I assume that applied to pistol as well, but you could contact them to double-check if you are interested in using their products; no range was provided in the rifle primer information I have. NOIH has given 0.002-0.004 in for some of the military primers.

 

[madmo44mag]

I load a lot of plated bullets.
You can use LRN data for that weight of bullet but also the plating on most bullets can be pushed between max published cast data loading and JHP loadings.
So if cast is X and JHP is Z then loading at Y is OK.

 

[roo7171]

Thanks for the reply! I emailed HSM and asked for a recommended starting load for Power Pistol / mentioned bullet.

About the primers:

I have digital calipers however those seem impossible to use on such a small hole in the brass where the primer sits. Best way to measure the hole? I have some ideas but would like some feedback on that.

Is the point to load the primer as far as it can go into the brass (avoid gas leakage, etc.)? When you say compressed, it sounds like the anvil portion of thee primer is getting crushed up against the brass. Or is it just flush?

I load a lot of plated bullets.
You can use LRN data for that weight of bullet but also the plating on most bullets can be pushed between max published cast data loading and JHP loadings.
So if cast is X and JHP is Z then loading at Y is OK.

Understand – thanks!

-roo

 

[Nick_C_S]

I will be loading some 40 caliber next weekend; this will be the first time I’ve ever reloaded, so I want to make sure I’m going about it correctly.

Welcome to The Firing Line; and welcome to the world of handloading.

Use is for target shooting/USPA/IDPA

Thank you for stating your purpose - this is often overlooked.

Brass case lengths are fine and I’ll measure them as I go

If the brass was previously fired in your gun, measuring them is likely an unnecessary step; but if it makes you more comfortable, measure away. We would never criticize for being overly cautious.

HSM Plated Flat Point Bullets / 165 gn

Good choice.

Power Pistol

A bit of a hot and energetic powder for the application; but that's okay. It'll work just fine. PP ignites easily and tends to run clean - even when it's loaded modestly.

I have since replaced the stock barrel on my Glock 23 to a Lone Wolf barrel.

Good move. I have LW's for all my Glocks - because I load my own ammo.

I do realize plated bullets are softer so I am making sure that I expand the brass enough to not cut into the bullet during seating. That and making sure I don’t over crimp the bullet.

Good idea. Expand the mouth enough to where it's easy to place the bullet atop. The conventional wisdom for case mouth flairing in general, is to flair as little as possible, as to not overwork the brass. I personally don't subscribe to this notion. Brass is soft and pliable and unless overstretched, it's really hard to fatigue. Flair enough to where it's easy to place the bullet atop - regardless of the type of bullet. I've been doing it this way for years without problem.

My main concern is the powder charge. I understand that plated falls in-between a cast and jacketed bullets

Umm, not really. Plated "falls" much closer to jacketed, due to barrel friction. Copper is what is contacting the barrel, so it's going to behave more like a jacketed bullet. The only time this is not true is when they're loaded so hot that the plating is breaking down. You're not going to load that hot, so don't concern yourself with it for this project.

– so maybe on the safe side consider it cast for a starting load.

No. Consider a jacketed starting load.
Speer #14: 7.0gn to 7.8gn (Use the reliable published data that you prefer.)
I also checked Hornady and Sierra manuals. Hornady doesn't produce a 165gn bullet; and Sierra had no data for Power Pistol.

Don’t want a bullet stuck in the pipe either.

No you don't. And that's why you're going to reference jacketed data. Granted, it's unlikely to happen even with lead data because it's a semi-auto gun (revolvers have the barrel/cylinder gap which bleeds off gas; thus making stuck bullets more of an issue). But the only reason to use lead data is for fear of over-driving your bullets - and you're not going to get anywhere near that (as stated by your purpose). So put that concern aside.

I was thinking maybe the 6.0 or 6.4 would be fine. With that said though … still doing more research and want to finish reading the Lyman book first before I get started.

It will probably be okay. But it looks a little light to me. I'm not going to give specific load advice. I want you to pick a starting point that you are comfortable with - not me.

I like your approach overall. Take your time going through the process - as you are doing now. Handloading is rewarding. The learning is a big part of the journey that makes it so fun.

We'll want to know how it goes.
Stay safe.

 

[roo7171]

I like your approach overall. Take your time going through the process - as you are doing now. Handloading is rewarding. The learning is a big part of the journey that makes it so fun.

We'll want to know how it goes.
Stay safe.

THANKS for the reply ... good information and I agree with plated being closer to jacketed. Your descriptions makes sense.

Leaning more towards a 6.4 or a pinch heavier.

-roo

 

[Unclenick]

The past problem has been the plating variation. The now-defunct National Bullet company used plating so thin it could best be described as decorative. Those bullets had to be loaded the same as other cast bullets. At the other extreme, Ranier Ballistics has much thicker copper jackets and they recommend using jacketed data starting in the middle load range, which I expect is to make up for the fact their softer bullets produce lower start pressures, and then going up to maximum from there. So check your bullet maker's recommendations rather than look for an overall generalization to hold up.

About the primers:

I have digital calipers however those seem impossible to use on such a small hole in the brass where the primer sits. Best way to measure the hole? I have some ideas but would like some feedback on that.

Is the point to load the primer as far as it can go into the brass (avoid gas leakage, etc.)? When you say compressed, it sounds like the anvil portion of thee primer is getting crushed up against the brass. Or is it just flush?

The tip of the anvil sits on the primer pellet in the bottom of the cup. By compressing the anvil in slightly, you ensure solid, slightly compressed contact with the pellet between the anvil tip and the bottom of the cup. The mix between the anvil tip and bottom of the cup is called the "bridge" of primer mix. Hence this action is called setting the bridge. It is described in this article.

You can measure the depth of the primer pocket with the depth probe that sticks out of the back of the beam when you open the jaws. It is not, as you surmise, a terribly accurate approach. If you are using it, opening the jaws and setting the bottom of the primer down onto the probe and pressing it down until the case makes contact with the back of the beam is probably about as good as it will get. A depth micrometer is a better way.

If you have a set of precision pin gauges, you can find one that drops into the hole freely, measures its length, add that to the case length, then put it into the pocket and measure the combined length, which you subtract from the sum of the other two lengths to get primer pocket depth. In general, getting a primer about 0.004" below flush with the back of the case head will satisfy the required conditions. That's just around the thickness of typing paper, so you can cut a small strip of typing paper narrower than the primer, place it on the primer, then set the flat tip of a screwdriver or the edge of a razor blade to bridge across the middle of the primed pocket and see that the paper can still slip out from under the flat. Measure the paper first, so you know it's the right size.

 

[roo7171]

Thanks again for the info.

Based on the size of the primer with the anvil and depth of the pocket - using the calculation your provided, the depth below flush should be .006. I ran two cases through and it measured .007 below flush. It didn't feel excessive and I could reduce that. I used the depth needle on the end of my calipers - measurements on the primers were consistent and I averaged the depth of a dozen same brand brass that I intend to use for reloading. Primer caps showed no sign of being overly stressed too.

Primer article was a good read - thanks.

-roo

 

[cheygriz]

There is no point in measuring seating depth of primers..

Seat your primers to the bottom of the pocket. Period.

 

[TMD]

I've probably reloaded 15k plus rounds of .40S&W over the past 10 years and almost all of it shot through my Glock G35. I have close to a 5 gallon bucket of .40 brass that I've picked off the ground at ranges up over the years. Not once have I had an issue with case bulges with this brass or after I've shot it out of my Glock. I'm not saying there isn't cases out there that are bulged but I haven't run across any that were significant enough to need a Rx die.