New member modified Dan Wesson 357

[geo211]

Greetings I am a new member from florida, I have recently purchased a 1980's Dan Wesson model 15/2 357 magnum 4" revolver which is quite nice. I was attracted to the Dan revolver by the interchangable barrels available from 2 to 15" length. I discovered upon dismantalling the barrel and shroud system that the steel shroud weighs about twice the 4" barrel and that together they weigh about 8 oz or about 20% of the total. Being an engineer I extrapolated that a 15" barrel and shroud would weigh in at 30 oz and bring the total revolver weight to about 4.5 lbs from it's present 2.5 lbs of weight.

I therefore took interest in design and construction of a light weight carbon fiber shroud that could replace the steel shroud. For my 4" barrel the new shroud weight is about 1/2 the weight of the barrel. Thus reducing the revolver weight from about 40 oz to 35 oz and in the case of a 15" barrel model would reduce the weight from 72 oz to 42 oz.

I see no dis adavantage to all of this except that the felt recoil of firing the same ammo from a lighter gun, and that the balance of the gun is altered because more of the gun mass is now concentrated near the grip.
Not having large revolver experience I am looking for comment , caution and experience before I fire my revolver with the light weight shroud.

Thanks

 

[wogpotter]

The shroud doesn't handle firing stresses, that is done by the barrel. Based on that it looks possible.

Thoughts & comments:
Because the barrel is tensioned the opposite must happen to the shroud to the same extent though. How does your proposed carbon fiber shroud handle mechanical compression & linear shock?

The barrel shroud has a locating pin interface with the frame front, how are you going to duplicate that? Pretty important as the front sight is on the shroud & changing the factory ones (or even just tweaking the nut) can change zero.

Most of the carbon-fiber barrels I've seen are actually bonded to a thin bore tube. Could you use a hybrid metal/carbon fiber version & still save weight?

 

[geo211]

Yes Carbon Shroud will be in compression which it handles very well since carbon fiber is stiffer than steel but about 20% of the weight, to take shock some of the fiber is bonded at + and - 45 degree angle. Current shroud is not indexed to revolver pin since prototype is only a shroud for proof of concept, however can add index pin later, although will probably add pin to top of shroud and drill hole in top of gun frame rather than use of original index pin of current metal shroud. Can reinforce a gun barrel with carbon fiber directly however the resin's which bind the fiber together and to the metal barrel typically do not like high temperature and soften above 300 F although carbon fiber itself does not mind temps of 1500 F. I have attached photo of carbon prototype vs steel shroud balanced on carbon rod to indicate weight difference.

 

[SVO]

Don't know if you are aware that there is two different barrel shrouds available - one with a full length under lug, referred to a a vent heavy, and one without the full length lug. One possible way to lower the weight of the gun would be to use the standard shroud and mill lightening slots in the shroud as DW did on the SuperMag versions they built at one time.

 

[Scott5]

Hey geo211,
I have question for you.
If you are going to go to all the trouble of making a light weight shroud, then why not put a muzzle brake where the end cap is an the barrel with the holes pointing up to help tame the recoil?

I did that with mine and magnum shoot like .22's

Just my $0.02 worth.

Happy shooting
Scott5

 

[geo211]

porting the barrel may be a good idea for longer barrels , but two things make it difficult in this case first the resin will not tolerate the heat of the powder and by since the barrel threads are at the end of the barrel I don't want to drill ports through the threads or weaken the barrel with the holes since the barrel is under compression and drilling holes in a single side of the barrel will tend to weaken the barrel in an asymetrical way. The point of the lighter shroud is to make the gun easier to hold on sight the muzzel flip caused by the gas discharge after the bullet has left the barrel, only seems to effect the time to get back on target not the actual accuracy of the shot , whereas the weight of a long barrel and shroud extended out from the hand support do cause fatigue and loss of steadiness for a shot. My therory is that if all the weight of a handgun were concentrated near the grip it becomes easier to control the aim of the shot.

 

[wogpotter]

There is actually a replacement for the barrel nut which includes a built-in brake, you could if you didn't mind a slight weight penalty just replace the existing nut & not have to deal with the porting ever contacting your carbon setup. I think it's made by a company called "EWK".

 

[hemiram]

As someone who likes a heavy barrel, I don't really understand the point of this. I would just get a barrel with the cut down underlug. Your idea seems like a lot of work for not much of a payoff.

 

[geo211]

I do not understand the reasonning for a long heavy barrel , it seems to me that in targeting a handgun with a long heavy barrel the gun wants to tip down by weight and must be supported to resist this ,but when fired the shot kicks the gun up. I guess if you rest the barrel on a support it makes no difference but I can't see how trying to fire the gun from a single hand extended grip that a barrel at 30% of the weight is not an advantage to the shooter in both target aquisition, and control while firing. Took gun with carbon shroud for test firing and all went well with both 357 and 38 special. Impressed by the 357 recoil as compared to 38 ammo but with the flame coming out of 4" barrel with 357 I can appreciate the potential of velocity of the 357 when paired with longer barrels say 8 to 15 length. For short range 15-25 yards and the 4" barrel the 38 special ammo seem more than sufficient and get a lot less stares from others as noise level is also extreme with the 357.