New hunter, MOA question, confusion

L

lemoncadebay

Inactive
Hello,

I’ve bird hunted a bit but never big game. I’m new to scopes, and long shots. I don’t quite understand how to account for MOA and how to adjust my turret intuitively.

I can zero in at 50, 100, 200 just fine. But if a deer popped up at 276 yards and I was zeroed at 100 yards, I wouldn’t know what to do. How can I learn to use my scope intuitively?

My setup is a Tikka T3x in 6.5 creedmoor. I’m shooting ELDX in 143 grain. The scope is a leupold v3xi 3.5x10 40.

I really want to respect the animal I shoot at and not shoot blindly and hurt it and make it suffer without harvesting meat.
 
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Welcome to the playpen! :)

Most "deer cartridges" with muzzle velocities around 2,800 feet/second or so are similar in trajectory.

So, in general: Sighted in for 2" high at 100 yards is right at dead-on at 200. About 6" low at 300 and roughly two feet low at 400. Sure, some will be 5'" or 7" low at 300; or only 21" at 400, but in the field it won't make all that much difference for a kill-zone volume such as Bambi's.

I guess it's fair to say that out to maybe 250 yards, "Just point it and pull."

That's worked for me for over a half-century. Some .270, but mostly .243 and .30-'06. I have never adjusted a scope in the field. "Set it and forget it."

Once you're sighted in, forget the bench rest. You can sit in your living room in play-like field positions and dry-fire. And plinking practice while in field positions is very helpful when you go on a hunt. Like any physical endeavor, it takes practice in real-world conditions.
 
Don't over think this. Zero at 100, you'll be roughly 2" low at 200 and 8-10" low at 300. You'll be able to hit a deer size kill zone with very little holdover out to 300 yards. With a little practice it isn't that hard to figure out the hold over.


Zeroing 2" high at 100 is an older method that is not used as much any more. It can work, but most modern scopes have either multiple aiming points or dials to adjust for longer range shooting. They are designed to be used with a 100 yard zero. And even if not using them all it does is change the bullets impact from about 8" low at 300 yards to 6" low. Plus you have to deal with the bullet hitting above where you're aiming at 100-200 yards.

For me that just complicates matters and makes it easier to miss close shots (the ones you'll get the most of) while only helping very slightly on the longer shots (the ones you'll get the fewest of).

Beyond 300 yards is where you need to be using a range finder and understand how to use a scope with either dots or dials.
 
What kind of scope, reticle and turrets in particular, do you have? That pretty much determine what you can do in the field.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
FORGET any thought of scope adjustments in the field.

For the cartridge you listed and with the scope 1.5" above bore centerline . . .
- Sight in 3½" high at 200
You will be point-blank ± that 3½" all the way from the muzzle to ~300yds

Put the crosshairs on the chest and shoot.
 
Welcome!
I appreciate that you take responsibility for being competent with your rifle so you can deliver a quick,clean kill.
I'm happy to help.

Its a given there is more than one way to do things.You will get conflicting information. You learn some,and decide for yourself.

To answer one of your questions,an MOA is "Minute of angle" or 1/60th of a degree.That works out to near 1 inch over 100 yds,2 inches over 200 yds,etc

"Long Range" shooting? Its a relative term.Mostly from military sniper skills,we have stretched out what is possible. Given the info provided by you,I'm thinking you do not have sniper skills or equiptment,and you are not looking for 600 yd shots.Those skills involve accurately measuring the range,wind,etc and entering ballistic data into your scope.


IMO,for most folks hunting with the 30-06 or 270,etc ...a typical scoped bolt gun,you can think of the heart/lung boiler room as the target.You decide if you want to call it 6 in {+ or - 3 in)or 8 in,or 10 in. The point,with your sight in and your rifles ballistics,you can set up a "tolerable" limit the bullet will be high or low from your aim point.You sight in,and generally leave the knobs alone.

Of course,within that,you can still know "I'll be about 4 in high at that range,and I can Kentucky a bit."

As has been stated,with typical hunting cartridges in the 2800 fps range,approx 2 in high at 100 is on at 200 and 8 in low at 300.Or so.

Most folks can keep that in their head.Most folks can learn to use the duplex or other reticle features to roughly estimate range.


And for most folks,a 300 yd shot is pretty far enough. Getting closer is fun.I've found that game may not pose for the time it takes to laser,calculate,and twist knobs.And some folks just don't care to do that.


Some folks prefer flintlocks or longbows.


In my experience,you might get 5 or 10 second opportunities where the game presents a decent shot. The more "point and shoot" 300 yd trajectory is useful and practical


That ,IMO,is a good,basic,useful setup.


What can teach you a lot is trying out ,in a computer,different loads and sight in scenarios .Lots of them.You can see how it all work.


This will take you to one free ballistic software. There are others. This one works just fine.
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/
 
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I might choose my numbers a little differently than Art or Mehavey, but I agree; set it and forget about changing it in the field. I do recommend that you read, "The Hunting Rifle", by Jack O'Connor, as he discusses the matter in better detail than I have time for at the moment.
 
All but one of my hunting rifles have set and forget scopes. The one with the turreted scope is for shots of up to 500 yards on coyotes and pigs, since I can be a bit more precise at that range with turret adjustment.

For the set and forget scopes, specifically the one on my 270, I sight it in at 200. Been doing it like that for decades, and it gives me the 7, 20, 40 trajectory. Down 7 inches at 300 (which is good for most long shots on deer that I’ll take), 20 inches at 400 (which is about all the hold over I can actually use), and 40 inches at 500 (which is a useless number for me). So, for the 400 to 500 yard shots, I got the turreted scope. For a while I was seeing hogs and coyotes working the far tree line at 500 yards, so I set up to do them harm. And they quit working the tree line after I shot one hog. Go figure. But they’ll be back....
 
Once you're sighted in, forget the bench rest. You can sit in your living room in play-like field positions and dry-fire. And plinking practice while in field positions is very helpful when you go on a hunt. Like any physical endeavor, it takes practice in real-world conditions.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice, there...... but do not neglect to actually shoot your rifle from field positions (and practice getting into them QUICKLY) with the loads you will be using at the ranges you will be shooting..... and add time pressure, because as HiBC noted, you probably will get only 5 or 10 seconds to make the shot, maybe less...... IME, more shots are missed because because they were rushed, or not taken at all, because the hunter was not in good position fast enough when the game presented itself, instead of poor math or range estimation skills ...... today's rifles and ammo are so flat shooting that pretty much anything under about 300 yards is point and shoot...... modern rifles and optics are rugged and durable enough to "set and forget" as long as one treats them with due care ..... It is the shooter that is always the greatest variable in the system, and his/her skills are perishable.


https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6-5-creedmoor-143-gr-eld-x-precision-hunter#!/


Your gun and ammo, sighted in 2" high (I prefer 3" high m'self, but that's me) should allow you to "hold in the hair" to 300 yards. The question is, can you get into a steady position and make a pie plate accurate shot up to that range in the 5 to 10 seconds you might have with the equipment that you have to do it with?
 
Zeroing 2" high at 100 is an older method that is not used as much any more. It can work, but most modern scopes have either multiple aiming points or dials to adjust for longer range shooting. They are designed to be used with a 100 yard zero. And even if not using them all it does is change the bullets impact from about 8" low at 300 yards to 6" low. Plus you have to deal with the bullet hitting above where you're aiming at 100-200 yards.
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Really? It's still quite common practice to zero at 200.

So, you are saying 2" high at 100 is only 2" higher at 300 than a 100 yard zero? You might want to crunch those numbers again. 2 minutes scope adjustment does not equate to 2" at 300 yards.
 
I'd zero a 6.5 CM at 200. Ditto a 308, 30-06, etc - basically your standard big game calibers.

For longer range magnums I'd think about moving that out to 250-300 yards. If long range shots are realistic where you hunt and are within your wheelhouse, that is. I live in southwest Idaho so I do have the option of taking some very long shots if I want to. In other parts of the country taking a shot at 150 yards would probably be very unusual.
 
My setup is a Tikka T3x in 6.5 creedmoor. I’m shooting ELDX in 143 grain. The scope is a leupold v3xi 3.5x10 40. 
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You've got nothing to worry about you're shooting a Tikka in 6.5 Creedmoor! If you point that in the general direction of a deer it's a guaranteed kill shot, no scope needed. The Tikka and Creedmoor combo is a guaranteed fire and forget platform. :p

Seriously now, you've gotten some great advice. If your scope doesn't have a BDC reticle then zero for 200 yards. Then go and shoot at different ranges so you know where your bullet is going.

If you get a chance shoot your rifle over a chronograph and that'll help you to learn the trajectory of your rifle. Once you plug it into some ballistics software you can start to visualize the arc your bullet takes to the target. You can do all this without a chronograph by shooting at varying ranges and recording bullet drop, the chronograph just speeds up the process.
 
jimbob has the right answer and the link to your caliber and load in his post. Set your scope up like that...dead on at 200 yards...and forget about it. As a somewhat inexperienced big game rifle shooter, I would suggest limiting your shots to no more than 250 yards. If you want to try and reach out to 300 yards, as you can see from the chart, the hold would be near the top of the animal's back to account for the 8 inches or so of drop at that distance. Be sure to invest a little money in a range finder to boost your confidence that you are within your comfort range. And don't neglect practice (both live and dry fire) from different shooting positions, as also stated.
 
Point blank range system always made the most sense to me, though I’ve often read people use 6” whereas I feel 4” is more adequate as minor mistakes don’t become bigger troubles.

Calculating the 143 ELDX at 2700 fps and at 1000’ elevation this would mean zeroing at 250 yds gives 100 yds at 3.6” or 2.7” at 200 yds would give your highest point of 3.9” at 125-150 yds. Your low point would be at 300 yds with -4.2”. If you aim for the vitals anywhere from the muzzle to 300 yds you should be just fine. However knowing that I’m a little high closer up I’d aim what seems to me to be an inch or two lower to be closer to exactly where I want to hit.

This makes things rather simple. And maybe you’d like to reduce your number to 3” or some such.
 
+2

Zero +2" at 100 has been my practice with rifles having muzzle velocities in the 2800 fps plus range since I was old enough to zero my own rifles. It has served me well on east of the MS whitetails for a long time now.

Moderate calibers like 7.62x39mm, .44 mag, I zero on at 100. I believe the older standard of "3" high at 100" does put the bullet a bit higher at mid-range than is practical.

This "range, twirl and shoot" business for hunting may work in some circumstances, driven by the long distance hunting mania and the interest in sniping and tactical shooting. But unless you have a spotter, and a ton of experience in ranging and twirling, and the time to make such shots, I don't see it as a practical way to hunt big game for most of us.
 
MOA: Minute Of Angle. 360 degrees in a circle. 60 minutes in a degree. Doing the math gives 1.047 inches at 100 yards. To make life easy at common distances in hunting, just call it an inch a hundred. 2" at 200; 3" at 300, etc.

It's quite common for today's scoped hunting rifles to be capable of five-shot groups of one MOA or less.
 
Zero your rifle for 200 yards.
Get out and shoot at ranges out to 300 yards.
A friend of mine uses white paper plates. Hit the plate at whatever range, you hit the 8-10 inch kill zone on a deer.
I wouldn't worry about adjusting a scope turret for drop. You probably won't have time in a hunting situation.
Get to some place you can shoot and play with your rifle.
The more trigger time the better.
Good luck, good hunting.
 
As a lifelong hunter, forget the "scope twiddling" you see on TV. As mentioned several times, set your zero to a maximum "point blank range" suitable for the size of game hunted and learn the "hold over" for ranges beyond that.
I just returned from an elk hunt with a hunter who had never been 'out west". He had zeroed his .308 at 100 yards(counter to my suggestions) and when presented with a 300+ yard shot, had NO IDEA where to hold. He shot his rifle dry missing so far the elk weren't even scared. I handed him my rifle, told him the yardage and where to hold, and he killed the elk with one shot.
My rifle was zeroed 2.5-3" high @ 100 yards for max point blank (hold on the brown) range and I'd actually shot it at the distance to target (350 yards) so I knew exactly where the bullet would strike.
 
Lemon!

I like where you are coming from,OP, so I did a little work for you.

Back at post #6 I gave you a link to Hornady ballistic software.

When you go there,select "standard".Click the little box for something like "advanced features" Use the "G1" ballistic co-efficient (technically,the g-7 would be better,but,bear with me)

select "50 yds"for interval. enter 250 yds for sight in distance. 2700 for velocity .625 for Ballistic coefficient. You can measure your scope height.You have a 40 mm objective.Unless its mounted high,1.5 will be close.

Enter 90 for wind angle,and 10 mph for wind speed. Enter an altitude.

Do your best if I left anything out. Run the calculation.

It will tell you to sight in 3,2 in high at 100 yds.

That will give you 3.6 in high at 150 yds,and that will be near your max "high".You will stay inside a +4 in midrange .

I suggest you check dead on zero at 250 yds

That will put you 4 inches low at 300 yds.

So with a 250 yd zero,you will be withi 4 in elevation to 300 yds.


Now,figure at about 150 yds,and 300 yds,you are at your max 4 inch error..don't try the 4 inch correction with your hold,try 2 inches correction with your hold. If you get that down,you'll be within 2 inches of what you want to hit.
I say that because in the heat of the moment,over thinking and overcorrection is a common disease.Its a refinement of "hold on hair"
"Its far,I'm holding high" blows the backstraps off.

At 350 you will be 10 in low ,and at 400 yds,you will be 17.5 in low.

Note that past 300 yds,things start dropping faster.A 50 yd ranging error means a 7.5 in elevation error from 350 to 400 yds,and it gets worse as you go longer.

That's why "long range" like 600 starts requiring lasers,ballistic data and knob twisting.

Accept a reasonable range limitation and you can keep things simple.

FWIW,if it stayed straight in my memory,your 250 yd 10 mph wind value is 5.6 in.

I hope I just showed you that using the calculator yourself is a better deal.

You can do it
 
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