Im from the people's republic of NY and recently applied for my pistol permit. I've shot rifles for years, but never a handgun. In NY, you need a permit not only to shoot a pistol at a range, but to even handle a pistol in a gun store. I've always liked the look of a 1911...glocks too. Any recommendations of what I should purchase when i get my permit. I know I definitely want adjustable sights. The gun will be used for frequent range trips and home protection. Thanks.
New Guy - Handgun recommendations
- Thread starter fsfty
- Start date
I'll throw it out there.
I know exactly what you want!
Rentals.
It's great doing all types of research and all, but getting your hands on the gun makes a big difference. After you've just handled the firearms in store & know what feels good to you, make sure you go rent them. I can't count the number of guns that I thought "wow, this feels fantastic!" and then just didn't enjoy shooting it.
I ended up with a list of about 8 guns to rent, and rented 2-3 at a time. It was sort of a playoff system where the winner moved to the next round. I still enjoy renting other guns today though, as it's fun to try out something new.
I know exactly what you want!
Rentals.
It's great doing all types of research and all, but getting your hands on the gun makes a big difference. After you've just handled the firearms in store & know what feels good to you, make sure you go rent them. I can't count the number of guns that I thought "wow, this feels fantastic!" and then just didn't enjoy shooting it.
I ended up with a list of about 8 guns to rent, and rented 2-3 at a time. It was sort of a playoff system where the winner moved to the next round. I still enjoy renting other guns today though, as it's fun to try out something new.
MarkDozier
New member
Walther , BAH, Humbug. Get a nice 1911 45 acp.
Depending on where in NY you are, take a day trip to VT, PA, or OH and go to a shop that has rental guns and a range. Choosing the right gun is highly subjective. Continue your research, to come up with a list of reliable, recommended guns, but don't choose until you get the chance to handle and try a few.
Also, check corneredcat.com for lots of good advice for new shooters.
Also, check corneredcat.com for lots of good advice for new shooters.
XDM 45acp, comes with a basic kit of holster/mag holster with good retention, match barrel, great ergonomics, glock reliability with grip safety for added safety like on a 1911, ive shot more than 500 rounds thru it with zero ftf, backstraps are interchangeble i have large hands but use the smallest one (3included in box) for a more like 1911 feel, raised SOLID sights, i had a glock 19, shot this and got rid of the 19, cant go wrong with either but man is the xdm accurate and safer in my opinion. Last time i was at the range it was raining and my gun was on the table as i was loaded the back, gun was locked in the rear position totally exposed, my friend was freaking out saying hey its wet!(guy next to me was covering his guns with an umbrella it was just a light rain shower,) i was like wow..
so anyway i told him would u feel better if i threw it and rolled it in the mud, he said no way so anyways i loaded the xdm and noticed he was taking a step back thinking kaboom i guess.lol. first shot in the rain with wet gun hit perfect center bullseye at 10 yards, if thats not accurate and reliable i dont know what is. no b.s buy one or test one for yourself, you will never look back at another glock. glock was then, xdm is now. just my 2 cents. put it this way if glock & 1911 had a baby=xdm with enhanced features, and just so you all know if you dont glock wasnt the first polymer so spare me your reliability b.s ive spoken to real cops who dont say many nice things about glocks, if you want something maybe better or nicer look into HK USP but after comparing both..xdm was lighter and felt better to me, not to mention 13 rounds of 45acp or 16 with mag extension(for you 9mm guys that 13 isnt enough). throw a 16 rounder in there and carry 2 more and i think your going to be more than ok, and remember your 9mm might expand but my 45 isnt getting any smaller...enough said.
Theres a reason 1911 has been putting bad guys out of business for more than 100 years, good o 45acp. if you want a 1911 get ready to pay sooner or later for upgrades,mods, to me its more of a range gun, not that i wouldnt carry one but my xdm fits the combat role just fine and less controls in case it needs to go bang. research and compare! thats your best friend, go to a local shop/range and try them out..best way.
so anyway i told him would u feel better if i threw it and rolled it in the mud, he said no way so anyways i loaded the xdm and noticed he was taking a step back thinking kaboom i guess.lol. first shot in the rain with wet gun hit perfect center bullseye at 10 yards, if thats not accurate and reliable i dont know what is. no b.s buy one or test one for yourself, you will never look back at another glock. glock was then, xdm is now. just my 2 cents. put it this way if glock & 1911 had a baby=xdm with enhanced features, and just so you all know if you dont glock wasnt the first polymer so spare me your reliability b.s ive spoken to real cops who dont say many nice things about glocks, if you want something maybe better or nicer look into HK USP but after comparing both..xdm was lighter and felt better to me, not to mention 13 rounds of 45acp or 16 with mag extension(for you 9mm guys that 13 isnt enough). throw a 16 rounder in there and carry 2 more and i think your going to be more than ok, and remember your 9mm might expand but my 45 isnt getting any smaller...enough said.
Theres a reason 1911 has been putting bad guys out of business for more than 100 years, good o 45acp. if you want a 1911 get ready to pay sooner or later for upgrades,mods, to me its more of a range gun, not that i wouldnt carry one but my xdm fits the combat role just fine and less controls in case it needs to go bang. research and compare! thats your best friend, go to a local shop/range and try them out..best way.
And for you recoil guys plz spare me this moment, my girl shoots my 45 and says the 9 feels like a toy. and shes only 125lbs, your average guy is 160, if you cant handle it get into the gym and quit crying, why shoot some in self defense of course 5 times with a 9 when a good o double tap 45 will be sure to make it lights out? dont believe me? then why is 50 cent *shot more than 7 times with a 9mm still walking, Look man carry enough gun, its better to have more than have less and need more, theres no telling what a 230 grown man on drugs can do and how many rounds it can take, cops faced that issue and crossed to 40 cal, ive seen some swat guys carrying 45's, remember bad guys come in all shapes and sizes even 6.5 250lb, sure a 9 to the head will drop anyone but so will my 45, a 9 to the arm would wound, 45 will practically take your arm off... put it this way, if you only manage to get one shot off in time as a reflex, wouldnt you want it to be a show stopper with enough capability?
There is the obligatory - "Take classes, get training, rent guns, find the one that's right for you... Start with a quality .22 and learn the basics... all that stuff.
I think someone should put together a list of stuff like that ^
OK, so now my ideas...
I have a lot of fun with my Glock 17L at the range. It's a big gun, long sight radius, hardly any felt recoil.
Nothing that would preclude it from being a good HD weapon.
Glock 34 is the same way - not quite as big as a 17L but I have fun shooting it.
I think you should spend some time seeing if you like or dislike certain types of controls. Some people do not like DOA triggers on semi-autos. Some people do not like slide-mounted safeties or especially safeties that flip up. Check those kind of things out and that will narrow your search somewhat.
If I were going to buy a .45 and money were no object - I'd get an HK Mark 23. They are really very accurate, they're made to be reliable in adverse environments and they've undergone testing to prove it. They are built to fire +P rounds and it's a massive enough firearm that it can handle the +P. I want to eventually get one...
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mark23_general.asp
I'd also check out the CZs, I think they make quality pistols at a decent price. You have to see though if you are OK with a manual safety that you have to thumb off...
.
I think someone should put together a list of stuff like that ^
OK, so now my ideas...
I have a lot of fun with my Glock 17L at the range. It's a big gun, long sight radius, hardly any felt recoil.
Nothing that would preclude it from being a good HD weapon.
Glock 34 is the same way - not quite as big as a 17L but I have fun shooting it.
I think you should spend some time seeing if you like or dislike certain types of controls. Some people do not like DOA triggers on semi-autos. Some people do not like slide-mounted safeties or especially safeties that flip up. Check those kind of things out and that will narrow your search somewhat.
If I were going to buy a .45 and money were no object - I'd get an HK Mark 23. They are really very accurate, they're made to be reliable in adverse environments and they've undergone testing to prove it. They are built to fire +P rounds and it's a massive enough firearm that it can handle the +P. I want to eventually get one...
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/mark23_general.asp
I'd also check out the CZs, I think they make quality pistols at a decent price. You have to see though if you are OK with a manual safety that you have to thumb off...
.
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New shooter; DA only firearms....
Hello;
If you are new to guns & the shooting sports, I'd highly suggest buying a quality LE trade-in .357magnum or .38 special caliber DA only revolver to start out. The DA only or DAO means double action only.
It's safe & simple to learn the basics with. A stainless Ruger SP101 5 shot .357magnum(my first handgun in 1993) or a NYPD trade in model 64 revolver(.38spl +P, DA only) can protect you and you'd avoid a lot of legal hassles/bogus claims of unsafe-improper use by a DA or criminal investigator if you use the handgun in a critical incident.
.38spl rounds can be used for training or practice then you could load the DA or DA only wheelgun with more powerful/defense rounds.
Unless you have formal, documented skill training or military service, I'd avoid single action or striker fired pistols until your skills advance.
DA only revolvers like the Ruger LCR or the Smith & Wesson model 442/642 .38spl +P are a good way to go, IMO.
As you progress you can buy a DA only hammer fired semi auto like the popular PX4 C(constant action), the HK P30 or P2000 LEM(law enforcement modification) or a used/CPO(factory serviced) SIG Sauer P239 DAK, P229R DAK or P226R DAK(DAK is a smooth DA only factory trigger).
Many large firms like SIG & Walther & Beretta USA market factory .22LR caliber mags & slides too to aid training for new gun owners.
Always use factory rounds for defense/protection. No handloads or reloaded ammunition.
Many areas in the Empire state are very strict and not all sworn LE officers or county DAs are pro gun/2A supporters.
To carry & shoot a weapon picked by a sworn LE agency or to use the same brand/type handgun ammunition is a smart move.
Glocks, 1911a1 .45s & Smith and Wesson M&Ps are very popular with NY law enforcement but it's better to learn the basics with a simple, well made DA/DA only 5/6/7 shot revolver.
Clyde
www.NRA.org www.Paladin-press.com www.handgunlaw.us www.SIGsauer.com www.BerettaUSA.com www.NatchezSS.com www.Gunlawguide.com www.Gunsamerica.com www.JGsales.com www.Gunzilla.com www.Brownells.com
Hello;
If you are new to guns & the shooting sports, I'd highly suggest buying a quality LE trade-in .357magnum or .38 special caliber DA only revolver to start out. The DA only or DAO means double action only.
It's safe & simple to learn the basics with. A stainless Ruger SP101 5 shot .357magnum(my first handgun in 1993) or a NYPD trade in model 64 revolver(.38spl +P, DA only) can protect you and you'd avoid a lot of legal hassles/bogus claims of unsafe-improper use by a DA or criminal investigator if you use the handgun in a critical incident.
.38spl rounds can be used for training or practice then you could load the DA or DA only wheelgun with more powerful/defense rounds.
Unless you have formal, documented skill training or military service, I'd avoid single action or striker fired pistols until your skills advance.
DA only revolvers like the Ruger LCR or the Smith & Wesson model 442/642 .38spl +P are a good way to go, IMO.
As you progress you can buy a DA only hammer fired semi auto like the popular PX4 C(constant action), the HK P30 or P2000 LEM(law enforcement modification) or a used/CPO(factory serviced) SIG Sauer P239 DAK, P229R DAK or P226R DAK(DAK is a smooth DA only factory trigger).
Many large firms like SIG & Walther & Beretta USA market factory .22LR caliber mags & slides too to aid training for new gun owners.
Always use factory rounds for defense/protection. No handloads or reloaded ammunition.
Many areas in the Empire state are very strict and not all sworn LE officers or county DAs are pro gun/2A supporters.
To carry & shoot a weapon picked by a sworn LE agency or to use the same brand/type handgun ammunition is a smart move.
Glocks, 1911a1 .45s & Smith and Wesson M&Ps are very popular with NY law enforcement but it's better to learn the basics with a simple, well made DA/DA only 5/6/7 shot revolver.
Clyde
www.NRA.org www.Paladin-press.com www.handgunlaw.us www.SIGsauer.com www.BerettaUSA.com www.NatchezSS.com www.Gunlawguide.com www.Gunsamerica.com www.JGsales.com www.Gunzilla.com www.Brownells.com
The two most fun gun I have are 5" 1911 9mm and 4" S&W revolver model 15. Both will do as a home defense handgun.
My primary defense pistol is a 9mm Walther P99 DA/SA but the 1911 and the S&W are what I shoot the most at the range. I shoot my Walther a just enough to keep it familiar.
Keep in mind that used S&W 38s are cheap but 38 ammunition is almost as expensive as .45. 9mm is still the cheapest centerfire and adequate for defense (i think).
My primary defense pistol is a 9mm Walther P99 DA/SA but the 1911 and the S&W are what I shoot the most at the range. I shoot my Walther a just enough to keep it familiar.
Keep in mind that used S&W 38s are cheap but 38 ammunition is almost as expensive as .45. 9mm is still the cheapest centerfire and adequate for defense (i think).
brokenarrow41
Inactive
I feel your pain!
I'm from LI also and had to make the very same decision.
I ended up with the Springfield XD 45acp. Very accurate, 10 powerful rounds in the magazine and the 45 is very easy to reload. Good luck, maybe I'll see you in Ridge one day.
I'm from LI also and had to make the very same decision.
I ended up with the Springfield XD 45acp. Very accurate, 10 powerful rounds in the magazine and the 45 is very easy to reload. Good luck, maybe I'll see you in Ridge one day.
I hadn't realized you were on Long Island. I would think you could find a range with rental guns in CT. Try asking icedog88 or ConnTrooper.
I think it's a bad idea to recommend specific guns to strangers. I don't know your needs, preferences, hand size, dress style... It is much better if you handle (and, ideally, shoot) a variety so you can make an informed decision.
I think it's a bad idea to recommend specific guns to strangers. I don't know your needs, preferences, hand size, dress style... It is much better if you handle (and, ideally, shoot) a variety so you can make an informed decision.
Firearm selections; choices....
I disagree to a point with the last post. If you have any past experience or use with a firearm model or brand, you can suggest it.
Also knowing a certain fire control system or how/why a LE agency selected a firearm is also important.
Not everyone is a "gun" person and for defense/use of force incidents there is more than a firearm selection to consider.
I'd add too that not ALL models will be best for all shooters or gun owners but smart choices can be made based on budget, skill level, hand strength/medical condition, etc.
I disagree to a point with the last post. If you have any past experience or use with a firearm model or brand, you can suggest it.
Also knowing a certain fire control system or how/why a LE agency selected a firearm is also important.
Not everyone is a "gun" person and for defense/use of force incidents there is more than a firearm selection to consider.
I'd add too that not ALL models will be best for all shooters or gun owners but smart choices can be made based on budget, skill level, hand strength/medical condition, etc.
ClydeFrog, I'm not saying you shouldn't say, for instance, "Dan Wesson makes a good 1911."
I'm saying that telling a new shooter "You should buy a Colt Defender!" or "Easy answer: buy a Glock 19!" may be well-intentioned, but may not actually be a good call for the person being advised.
OTOH, saying, "I have not had any malfunctions with my Glock 19 in over 5,000 rounds fired, and think you should look at one," is fine by me.
My advice would be more like this:
As always, check out the website run by our own Pax, corneredcat.com. Great advice on factors that should go into selecting a handgun.
Factors I personally look for in a handgun:
1) Reliability - I have to have high confidence that it will work, the first time, every time. I've had a few guns that were fantastic shooters, but had enough occasional hiccups that they were relegated to non-carry roles. Even after break-in, it takes a while to regain confidence after an issue or two has popped up.
2) Fits my hand -
a) comfortable grip (bearing in mind that some autos have interchangeable backstraps, so if the first doesn't work, try the others before ruling it out; similarly, grip adapters or replacement grips might be fitted to revolvers, or replacement grip panels to traditional autos);
b) trigger reach is such that I can get the pad or first joint (for SA guns) or specifically the first joint (for DA) of my trigger finger on the trigger without having to contort my grip, and while keeping the barrel of the gun aligned with the long bones of my forearm;
c) does not have any obvious, annoying rub spots (I have this problem with most Glocks, as it turns out - the trigger guard shape ends up annoying the middle knuckle of my middle finger; similiarly, the Ruger Super Blackhawk I owned bruised the crap out of that same joint any time I'd fire more than a handful of magnums.)
d) is shaped in such a way that it is easy to get a consistent grip, every time I draw.
e) has controls laid out in a way that lets me perform essential functions with my shooting hand, only. (Some people don't care about this, but I am of the "how do I know I'll have two hands available?" school.) Note: This is what turned me off to the Beretta 9000 when it came out, even though I have liked every other Beretta I've ever shot - I could not manipulate the safety without using my support hand, it was too short for leverage and extremely stiff.
3) Controllability - a good fit will help a lot with this, but fit is not the only factor. Power vs weight, bore axis height, and in some cases whether my little finger has purchase or not will all come into play for controllability, which for me means my ability to get back on target quickly after the first shot, and to maintain steady, accurate, rapid fire.
4) Adequate concealability - I say adequate, because if I plan to carry under a jacket or loose shirt, I can conceal a much larger gun than I could if I worked in a law office, in dress clothing, or if I wanted something I could wear while jogging (like you'll ever catch me jogging... cross-country skiing, hiking, or rowing, maybe... jogging, no, but you get the idea.)
After all that, I'd recommend a short list, as opposed to any one gun.
Guns that gave me almost perfectly trouble free shooting over the years:
Autos
SIG P220
SIG P239
Beretta 92 and M9
Beretta PX4
Glock 21
Glock 30 (Note that while I don't like shooting Glocks, they tend to be both accurate and trouble free, so I recommend that people check them out)
CZ75B
Dan Wesson CBOB
Colt plain-jane GI 1911
S&W M&P
I would also recommend a Kahr PM9, but those tend to require some break-in, and the one I had would only work with the six round magazines. Seven rounders, for whatever reason, would cause FTRB issues.
Revolvers
S&W K-frame, particularly 3", any
S&W L-frame, 4" or less
S&W J-frame or Ruger LCR - but note, these are not beginner guns. Small revolvers can be very accurate, but they require very solid shooting skills, and typically lots of dry fire
Ruger GP100, 4" or less
Ruger SP101 - note, this gun is smallish, but heavy, and somewhat more forgiving than a J-frame; of course, it's heavy, so harder to carry in a pocket, but still easy on a belt
Note that larger autos and revolvers could also be valid recommendations, for somebody who wanted a hiking and hunting gun, but that's a separate discussion.
Note also that a .22LR is always good to have; one that mimics the characteristics of the EDC is ideal.
Edit: Since, in this case, the OP is asking about range and HD, I'd advise him to look at the larger guns on the list, first, and to go with 4", not less, on the medium frame revolvers.
I'm so used to people asking about carry...
I'm saying that telling a new shooter "You should buy a Colt Defender!" or "Easy answer: buy a Glock 19!" may be well-intentioned, but may not actually be a good call for the person being advised.
OTOH, saying, "I have not had any malfunctions with my Glock 19 in over 5,000 rounds fired, and think you should look at one," is fine by me.
My advice would be more like this:
As always, check out the website run by our own Pax, corneredcat.com. Great advice on factors that should go into selecting a handgun.
Factors I personally look for in a handgun:
1) Reliability - I have to have high confidence that it will work, the first time, every time. I've had a few guns that were fantastic shooters, but had enough occasional hiccups that they were relegated to non-carry roles. Even after break-in, it takes a while to regain confidence after an issue or two has popped up.
2) Fits my hand -
a) comfortable grip (bearing in mind that some autos have interchangeable backstraps, so if the first doesn't work, try the others before ruling it out; similarly, grip adapters or replacement grips might be fitted to revolvers, or replacement grip panels to traditional autos);
b) trigger reach is such that I can get the pad or first joint (for SA guns) or specifically the first joint (for DA) of my trigger finger on the trigger without having to contort my grip, and while keeping the barrel of the gun aligned with the long bones of my forearm;
c) does not have any obvious, annoying rub spots (I have this problem with most Glocks, as it turns out - the trigger guard shape ends up annoying the middle knuckle of my middle finger; similiarly, the Ruger Super Blackhawk I owned bruised the crap out of that same joint any time I'd fire more than a handful of magnums.)
d) is shaped in such a way that it is easy to get a consistent grip, every time I draw.
e) has controls laid out in a way that lets me perform essential functions with my shooting hand, only. (Some people don't care about this, but I am of the "how do I know I'll have two hands available?" school.) Note: This is what turned me off to the Beretta 9000 when it came out, even though I have liked every other Beretta I've ever shot - I could not manipulate the safety without using my support hand, it was too short for leverage and extremely stiff.
3) Controllability - a good fit will help a lot with this, but fit is not the only factor. Power vs weight, bore axis height, and in some cases whether my little finger has purchase or not will all come into play for controllability, which for me means my ability to get back on target quickly after the first shot, and to maintain steady, accurate, rapid fire.
4) Adequate concealability - I say adequate, because if I plan to carry under a jacket or loose shirt, I can conceal a much larger gun than I could if I worked in a law office, in dress clothing, or if I wanted something I could wear while jogging (like you'll ever catch me jogging... cross-country skiing, hiking, or rowing, maybe... jogging, no, but you get the idea.)
After all that, I'd recommend a short list, as opposed to any one gun.
Guns that gave me almost perfectly trouble free shooting over the years:
Autos
SIG P220
SIG P239
Beretta 92 and M9
Beretta PX4
Glock 21
Glock 30 (Note that while I don't like shooting Glocks, they tend to be both accurate and trouble free, so I recommend that people check them out)
CZ75B
Dan Wesson CBOB
Colt plain-jane GI 1911
S&W M&P
I would also recommend a Kahr PM9, but those tend to require some break-in, and the one I had would only work with the six round magazines. Seven rounders, for whatever reason, would cause FTRB issues.
Revolvers
S&W K-frame, particularly 3", any
S&W L-frame, 4" or less
S&W J-frame or Ruger LCR - but note, these are not beginner guns. Small revolvers can be very accurate, but they require very solid shooting skills, and typically lots of dry fire
Ruger GP100, 4" or less
Ruger SP101 - note, this gun is smallish, but heavy, and somewhat more forgiving than a J-frame; of course, it's heavy, so harder to carry in a pocket, but still easy on a belt
Note that larger autos and revolvers could also be valid recommendations, for somebody who wanted a hiking and hunting gun, but that's a separate discussion.
Note also that a .22LR is always good to have; one that mimics the characteristics of the EDC is ideal.
Edit: Since, in this case, the OP is asking about range and HD, I'd advise him to look at the larger guns on the list, first, and to go with 4", not less, on the medium frame revolvers.
I'm so used to people asking about carry...