New From Springfield Armory!!
- Thread starter Shake
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Robert the41MagFan
New member
looks like a HS2000. They flopped!
Robert
Robert
It is an hs2000, and it did not flop. Saying that it did isn't based on any facts.
The problem seems to be either the importer couldn't handle it, or the factory was having production problems. HS america (formed by intrac) could never seem to fill the demand that the pistol created.
I have one and I love it. It fits my hand like it was made for it. Accurate, mild recoil, accepts cheap highcaps, reliable, and very inexpensive. The only problem it had was with extraction, related to the cheap winchester white box which seems to be their regular ammo that is at the 'unacceptable' end of their specs - sort of like X-out golf balls.
I like this pistol so much that when I get some money in the next day or two, I'm driving 150 miles or so to pick up another one at the only dealer that still has them.
Pretty soon they'll come out at around $400-$420. Then we'll see a whole new batch of people start raving about these pistols and talking about how they're going to give glock a run for their money. And I'll just chuckle because I paid $269 for the same exact thing.
The problem seems to be either the importer couldn't handle it, or the factory was having production problems. HS america (formed by intrac) could never seem to fill the demand that the pistol created.
I have one and I love it. It fits my hand like it was made for it. Accurate, mild recoil, accepts cheap highcaps, reliable, and very inexpensive. The only problem it had was with extraction, related to the cheap winchester white box which seems to be their regular ammo that is at the 'unacceptable' end of their specs - sort of like X-out golf balls.
I like this pistol so much that when I get some money in the next day or two, I'm driving 150 miles or so to pick up another one at the only dealer that still has them.
Pretty soon they'll come out at around $400-$420. Then we'll see a whole new batch of people start raving about these pistols and talking about how they're going to give glock a run for their money. And I'll just chuckle because I paid $269 for the same exact thing.
I just bought the 9mm version today for $438. Only fired 50 rounds through it but no failures and very accurate. Over the next weeks I plan to fire 300+ rounds to test it's functionality. I plan to use it as a carry gun, but want to make sure it is reliable before trusting my life to it. Also will probably try it out in IDPA and USPSA. I'll let you know how my testing goes.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
An HS2000 for twice the price? Nice.
Pointblank2K
New member
HS 2000 a failure? thats not what the 500 or so guys think over at HS talk! we (all at HS talk) are THRILLED that Springfield is now distributing this great handgun! some of us (few) including myself had some problems with extraction...with other than win white box...but I can't wait until I can get a decent (new) extractor from them...Intrac had nothing but used extractors taken out of "parts guns" to replace the extractors...replacing a defective extractor with ANOTHER defective extractor...no good...but i'll tell you this...this is a GREAT handgun! VERY accurate...and it is a keeper for sure,
Tony.
Tony.
Robert the41MagFan
New member
They maybe good gun, fantastic guns or whatever. But when a firearm sits on a dealer shelf and has to be discounted in order to be sold, commercially speaking that's a flop. We got conned by Lew Horton to try these guns out and we had to sell the guns at cost in order to get rid of them. And although a dealers loss is a consumers gain, dealer can't stay in business selling at a loss.
Robert
Robert
Robert: No flame here and sorry to disagree with you , but I believe your experience with the HS2000 to be an anomoly. I can tell you here in Western Pennsylvania that HS2000s did not sit on dealer shelves. Of the half dozen or more major shops that I frequent, these pistols never sat on the shelf for long, and they definitely weren't sold at a loss. Right now it is virtually impossible to find an HS2000, new or used, in any of the Pittsburgh area shops. The only ones I've seen recently were at a large show, and they were going for $330 and up. And according to reports at HS2000-Talk, this is the case in most areas of the country.
As for performance, it's hard to ask for more. Most owners report excellent accuracy and very good reliability. There have been but a literal handful of owners who reported extractor problems, and a small number of owners who reported problems with Winchester White Box bulk ammo. I've got over 6,000 rounds of various ammo through mine without a single solitary hiccup. It'll shoot with, or better, than any of my SIGs, Kahrs, S&Ws or CZs. It also does everything my best friend's G-17 does, and outshoots another friend's Beretta 92 (ymmv). Again, other HS2000 owners report similar results.
To say that the HS2000 is a commercial flop is wholey false. Its only problem was an inability of its importer to meet demand. And obviously, Springfield thinks highly enough of the design and market potential that it took over importation of the pistol. My only lament about Springfield's involvement is that the price will jump significantly. Still, however, a pistol of this quality -- backed by a strong company like Springfield -- is a very good value at under $450.
As for your own poor experience with the HS2000, if you've still got any left that just have to be sold at a loss, I'd be happy to take a few off your hands for you. And I know of some other enthusiasts who'd be happy to buy the rest.
Take care. Marko
As for performance, it's hard to ask for more. Most owners report excellent accuracy and very good reliability. There have been but a literal handful of owners who reported extractor problems, and a small number of owners who reported problems with Winchester White Box bulk ammo. I've got over 6,000 rounds of various ammo through mine without a single solitary hiccup. It'll shoot with, or better, than any of my SIGs, Kahrs, S&Ws or CZs. It also does everything my best friend's G-17 does, and outshoots another friend's Beretta 92 (ymmv). Again, other HS2000 owners report similar results.
To say that the HS2000 is a commercial flop is wholey false. Its only problem was an inability of its importer to meet demand. And obviously, Springfield thinks highly enough of the design and market potential that it took over importation of the pistol. My only lament about Springfield's involvement is that the price will jump significantly. Still, however, a pistol of this quality -- backed by a strong company like Springfield -- is a very good value at under $450.
As for your own poor experience with the HS2000, if you've still got any left that just have to be sold at a loss, I'd be happy to take a few off your hands for you. And I know of some other enthusiasts who'd be happy to buy the rest.
Take care. Marko
Dr. Rob: You know the old saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." People either seem to love it or hate it. Personally, I find it to be one of the more attractive polymer pistols out there -- although nowhere nearly as attractive as many classic metal pistols and revolvers.
But more importantly, while it may not be asthetically pleasing to some, many folk find it ergonomically superior to other similar sized pistols, especially Glocks (such is the case with me). The SIG 225 is the most comfortable pistol I've owned, but the HS is not far behind. Whoever designed it did a pretty good job from a usability standpoint. Most HS owners seem to agree.
Take care. Marko
But more importantly, while it may not be asthetically pleasing to some, many folk find it ergonomically superior to other similar sized pistols, especially Glocks (such is the case with me). The SIG 225 is the most comfortable pistol I've owned, but the HS is not far behind. Whoever designed it did a pretty good job from a usability standpoint. Most HS owners seem to agree.
Take care. Marko
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
It's a good handgun. I wouldn't question that. It's about the same size as a Glock 19 and shoots about the same as well.
And when you could get them for 250 - It was the best deal going. Now your looking at 400 or so for it... is it still worth it?
If the gun fits your hands and you can shoot it well - then Yes. It is. I'm just sadened that it is now costing so much more!
And when you could get them for 250 - It was the best deal going. Now your looking at 400 or so for it... is it still worth it?
If the gun fits your hands and you can shoot it well - then Yes. It is. I'm just sadened that it is now costing so much more!
George: The higher cost is definitely a bummer. But the upside is that Springfield's involvement should mean greater assurance of parts availability, and more accessories. It also means that the long awaited .40s&w version has finally hit the streets and the .357sig version shouldn't be far behind.
Take care. Marko
Take care. Marko
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Handling the LIFETIME WARRANTY, maybe?
Handy wrote:
Handy: I'm curious, have you handled or fired an HS2000? Are you speaking from experience, or just from gut reaction? I can understand the skepticism of believing a sub-$300 pistol could still be a quality pistol. As an owner of a Generation 1 HS2000, along with a good deal other big name handguns, I can tell you first hand that it is more than a decent weapon. Field stripping it reveals just how robustly it's built. The slide rails are huge, the polymer in the dust cover area is quite thick, the slide is well-machined, and the trigger breaks cleanly in the 5 lb range. This is not a slapped-together pistol, as evidenced by the minute amount of visible wear after 6,000 flawless rounds.
As for the notion that it was designed to undercut name brands on price, nothing could be further from the truth. Let's face it, the sub-$300 price was not going to last forever. The low price was intended to obtain name recognition and market share, along with the possibility of getting a foot in the door of the LEO market. Price has absolutely nothing to do with its design. The HS2000's design is actually a decade old and well tested in the field, as its original (and current) purpose is as the standard sidearm for the Croation army and Croation police.
And it could certainly be argued that it's design is indeed innovative. It successfully marries numerous tried and true features from other pistols: grip safety like a 1911's; cocking indicator like the Baby Browning; trigger safety like Glock's; barrel lock-up like a SIG; takedown lever like a SIG; grip frame shaped like a CZ75's; ambidexterous mag release like a Walther 88's; and more. All housed in a lightweight polymer frame identical in size to SIG's compact P225 and loaded with extra features like a bull barrel, dual capture springs, H&K-like accessory rails that accept industry standard lights and lasers, and the ability to swap in aftermarket nightsights designed for SIGs, amongst other things. Throw in a loaded chamber indicator and numerous redundant safeties in a very reliable pistol that's always ready to fire, and you have a handgun that sounds pretty darn innovative to me, not to mention being a good deal -- yes, even at $438.
It seems to me that except for Robert's criticism, most all of the criticism here aimed at the HS2000 has been based on pure speculation and not real-world experience. Who better to give you the real rundown on a pistol than its owners? If you really want to be honest with yourselves, search the various gunboards (and not just the HS2000-Talk site) and see what the owners of the HS2000 have to say. I guarantee you that what criticism you do find, will by and large be from those with no real experience with this pistol. Very few owners have anything bad to say about it. And that should speak volumes to the HS2000's quality.
Take care all. Marko
Handy: I'm curious, have you handled or fired an HS2000? Are you speaking from experience, or just from gut reaction? I can understand the skepticism of believing a sub-$300 pistol could still be a quality pistol. As an owner of a Generation 1 HS2000, along with a good deal other big name handguns, I can tell you first hand that it is more than a decent weapon. Field stripping it reveals just how robustly it's built. The slide rails are huge, the polymer in the dust cover area is quite thick, the slide is well-machined, and the trigger breaks cleanly in the 5 lb range. This is not a slapped-together pistol, as evidenced by the minute amount of visible wear after 6,000 flawless rounds.
As for the notion that it was designed to undercut name brands on price, nothing could be further from the truth. Let's face it, the sub-$300 price was not going to last forever. The low price was intended to obtain name recognition and market share, along with the possibility of getting a foot in the door of the LEO market. Price has absolutely nothing to do with its design. The HS2000's design is actually a decade old and well tested in the field, as its original (and current) purpose is as the standard sidearm for the Croation army and Croation police.
And it could certainly be argued that it's design is indeed innovative. It successfully marries numerous tried and true features from other pistols: grip safety like a 1911's; cocking indicator like the Baby Browning; trigger safety like Glock's; barrel lock-up like a SIG; takedown lever like a SIG; grip frame shaped like a CZ75's; ambidexterous mag release like a Walther 88's; and more. All housed in a lightweight polymer frame identical in size to SIG's compact P225 and loaded with extra features like a bull barrel, dual capture springs, H&K-like accessory rails that accept industry standard lights and lasers, and the ability to swap in aftermarket nightsights designed for SIGs, amongst other things. Throw in a loaded chamber indicator and numerous redundant safeties in a very reliable pistol that's always ready to fire, and you have a handgun that sounds pretty darn innovative to me, not to mention being a good deal -- yes, even at $438.
It seems to me that except for Robert's criticism, most all of the criticism here aimed at the HS2000 has been based on pure speculation and not real-world experience. Who better to give you the real rundown on a pistol than its owners? If you really want to be honest with yourselves, search the various gunboards (and not just the HS2000-Talk site) and see what the owners of the HS2000 have to say. I guarantee you that what criticism you do find, will by and large be from those with no real experience with this pistol. Very few owners have anything bad to say about it. And that should speak volumes to the HS2000's quality.
Take care all. Marko
parabellum9x19
New member
I like this gun! It is cheaper than a custom knife. Who has the best price on the hs 2000?