New firing pin spring with recoil spring? Why?
- Thread starter Kharn
- Start date
Maybe you should ask Wolff...? 
But the few dozen opinions you'll get here will probably be more entertaining!
Mine is that Wolff sells springs, you bought the recoil spring, they slip the FP spring in, charged you for it too, and so they sent it!
Wolff's reasoning might be that since your recoil spring doesn't cut it anymore, your FP spring might not either, and they get to sell another spring!
But the few dozen opinions you'll get here will probably be more entertaining!
Mine is that Wolff sells springs, you bought the recoil spring, they slip the FP spring in, charged you for it too, and so they sent it!
Wolff's reasoning might be that since your recoil spring doesn't cut it anymore, your FP spring might not either, and they get to sell another spring!
Since the recoil spring is stronger now the slide chambers a round now with more force.
The new stronger firing pin spring keeps the firing pin from flying forward and hitting the primer on the round going in the chamber.
This is the purpose of the stronger firing pin spring onj a 1911 without the firing pin lock.
Increasing the recoil spring weight without increasing the firing pin spring weight could result in a slam fire.
The new stronger firing pin spring keeps the firing pin from flying forward and hitting the primer on the round going in the chamber.
This is the purpose of the stronger firing pin spring onj a 1911 without the firing pin lock.
Increasing the recoil spring weight without increasing the firing pin spring weight could result in a slam fire.
true, but the firing pin spring is stronger and if the hammer is hitting with the same force (which it will be), you have increased the posibility of light strikes... Just something else to keep in mind.
BTW I have wolf extra power recoil springs in my p-11 and p-32, and both kept the stock firing pin spring, and I 've have not seen a slam fire.
BTW I have wolf extra power recoil springs in my p-11 and p-32, and both kept the stock firing pin spring, and I 've have not seen a slam fire.
I did noy say that a slam fire was likely but this IS the purpose of the stronger firing pin spring.
Dont worry about light strikes unless you have lightened your hammer spring a lot. The new firing pin spring will not be that much different than the old one.
If fact you old firing pin spring may be just fine. Chamber a round with only one round in the mag. Look at the primer and see if it has a tiny mark where the firing pin hit the primer. If not and for some reason you don't want to replace the firing pin spring don't worry about it.
Dont worry about light strikes unless you have lightened your hammer spring a lot. The new firing pin spring will not be that much different than the old one.
If fact you old firing pin spring may be just fine. Chamber a round with only one round in the mag. Look at the primer and see if it has a tiny mark where the firing pin hit the primer. If not and for some reason you don't want to replace the firing pin spring don't worry about it.
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I just got recoil springs from Wolff for my Taurus PT-945 and PT-99. Both came with FP springs. I kinda like the idea of the stronger FP spring preventing a slamfire but both of my Taurii 
have FP blocks. Even if they're jacking the price, $8 is still cheap enough for a recoil spring.
Stay safe.
have FP blocks. Even if they're jacking the price, $8 is still cheap enough for a recoil spring.Stay safe.
I bought one Wolff recoil spring 18.5 (extra power) and there is also a firing pin included. Well, it follows that if you will change the former, why not change it all as an assembly. Replacing the recoil spring make sense too that you will change the firing pin spring so that there is a proportionate reaction on the system. Remember that more force is added already applied in the mechanisms.
I agree that it is cheap insurance to replace the FP spring when you replace the recoil spring. BUT, before you get spring-happy, consider the following situation:
You replace your recoil spring with a much heavier one. Therefore you replace your firing pin spring with a heavier one. Now, this leads to failures to fire. So, in response you replace your hammer spring with a much heavier unit. Ok, now you get failures to eject since you need so much more force to cycle the action (recoil spring force + hammer spring force). Also, due to the higher slide velocity, you have to replace the magazine springs in order to get the gun back "in time." This leads to increased resistance in the magazine for the top few rounds. This leads to a new, even heavier recoil spring. This leads.....
The AGI video on gunsmithing the 1911 talks about this happening. I don't know how plausible this is but is theoretically possible (I think).
The moral of the story - don't just blindly replace springs if you can do something else to make the gun work. However, a program of replacing the firing pin spring every so often can help you in the case of legal action due to an AD.
This really doesn't have much to do with why Wolff wants you to replace the firing pin spring with a new one, but is an interesting situation that getting "spring swap happy" can do. I kinda thought it was funny.
You replace your recoil spring with a much heavier one. Therefore you replace your firing pin spring with a heavier one. Now, this leads to failures to fire. So, in response you replace your hammer spring with a much heavier unit. Ok, now you get failures to eject since you need so much more force to cycle the action (recoil spring force + hammer spring force). Also, due to the higher slide velocity, you have to replace the magazine springs in order to get the gun back "in time." This leads to increased resistance in the magazine for the top few rounds. This leads to a new, even heavier recoil spring. This leads.....
The AGI video on gunsmithing the 1911 talks about this happening. I don't know how plausible this is but is theoretically possible (I think).
The moral of the story - don't just blindly replace springs if you can do something else to make the gun work. However, a program of replacing the firing pin spring every so often can help you in the case of legal action due to an AD.
This really doesn't have much to do with why Wolff wants you to replace the firing pin spring with a new one, but is an interesting situation that getting "spring swap happy" can do. I kinda thought it was funny.
SixGunner, you're almost right about the spring interactions, but there's another element... the ammo. Hotter loads produce a greater recoil impulse, and the recoil spring can be correspondingly stronger, which also lessens felt recoil. If the recoil spring's too strong for the ammo, the gun won't cycle properly because the slide won't have enough momentum to go full travel and eject the casing.
Also, the hammer spring/FP spring are really a functional spring pair in that a weaker hammer spring can be matched with a proportionally weaker FP spring.
The recoil spring's two strength determinants are the ammo and slide mass (assuming proper lubrication, of course).
A good rule of thumb for magazine springs is... your thumb! If you can easily load the last round or strip the first round from a full mag with your thumb, you may have a weak mag spring. You're not likely to get a mag spring that's too strong if you stick with the ones designed for the mag. Anyway, mags generally work or they don't. If they don't, the first thing to do is clean them thoroughly. It doesn't take much firing residue to crud them up enough to malfunction.
Also, the hammer spring/FP spring are really a functional spring pair in that a weaker hammer spring can be matched with a proportionally weaker FP spring.
The recoil spring's two strength determinants are the ammo and slide mass (assuming proper lubrication, of course).
A good rule of thumb for magazine springs is... your thumb! If you can easily load the last round or strip the first round from a full mag with your thumb, you may have a weak mag spring. You're not likely to get a mag spring that's too strong if you stick with the ones designed for the mag. Anyway, mags generally work or they don't. If they don't, the first thing to do is clean them thoroughly. It doesn't take much firing residue to crud them up enough to malfunction.
Walt Sherrill
New member
JamesK said:
But they could make the same money (and be more profitable) by just selling you the one spring at the same price. They don't have a lot of competitors, and buying from the gun maker is generally more expensive. I suspect that they could get the same price if they sold just the recoil spring.
I suspect the two-spring practice might've started back when a lot of semi-autos didn't have firing pin block mechanisms, and a tired firing pin spring might NOT be quite as effective in dealing with the extra force of a heavier recoil spring. Slam fires would be a possibility.
I would think that most firing pin blocks make slam-fires almost impossible. With nearly all gun, unless the trigger is fully to the rear, the firing pin can't move.
The Wolff explanation may justify the extra spring for an XP, but I wonder if they send two springs with the spring kits for all other hammer fired guns, and with striker-fired ones. (They always came with both for my CZs -- but I don't remember what I got for S&W and SIG guns.)
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Bill DeShivs
New member
Stronger recoil springs don't lessen felt recoil.
95% of recoil spring changes are unnecessary.
95% of recoil spring changes are unnecessary.
If you're going to change the firing pin spring, you should consider changing the main spring also. Those two are working together (actually all springs in the gun are working together... ) and they should be matching. Let's go bit further - people carrying the gun in condition 1 should consider replacing the main spring every once in a while as the main spring is under tension every time the hammer is cocked.
Combining tired main spring with new heavier than OEM firing spring is something I won't do. The main spring as a spring is one nasty and powerful fellow and probably will deliver enough inertia to the hammer to overcome the resistance of the firing pin spring in 99.99% of the cases, but I'm one of the "But-What-If" morons that don't feel lucky.
One more thing - if you change the recoil spring for heavier one, without changing the main spring, this will increase the cycling speed of the gun. Are you sure that your magazine spring will be able to keep up and feed the next round fast and reliably enough?
The idea of everything I wrote is that I see more logic to combine the Recoil spring with Main spring as a kit.
Playing with spring weights is cool but only for the range gun. For everyday carry, stay factory rated and fresh.
Here I'll perifrase the words of a member from another forum:
"Who can make a gun run better - You or John Browning?"
) and they should be matching. Let's go bit further - people carrying the gun in condition 1 should consider replacing the main spring every once in a while as the main spring is under tension every time the hammer is cocked. Combining tired main spring with new heavier than OEM firing spring is something I won't do. The main spring as a spring is one nasty and powerful fellow and probably will deliver enough inertia to the hammer to overcome the resistance of the firing pin spring in 99.99% of the cases, but I'm one of the "But-What-If" morons that don't feel lucky.
One more thing - if you change the recoil spring for heavier one, without changing the main spring, this will increase the cycling speed of the gun. Are you sure that your magazine spring will be able to keep up and feed the next round fast and reliably enough?
The idea of everything I wrote is that I see more logic to combine the Recoil spring with Main spring as a kit.
Playing with spring weights is cool but only for the range gun. For everyday carry, stay factory rated and fresh.
Here I'll perifrase the words of a member from another forum:
"Who can make a gun run better - You or John Browning?"
You can consider it, certainly there's nothing stopping you but a couple of bucks and the small amount of work involved, but why bother?
Granted, all the springs work together to run the gun, and they are a balancing act. In the 1911 things are balanced in such a way that the hammer spring almost never needs replacement.
The firing pin spring has two jobs, prevent inertia firing, and keeping the firing pin to the rear where the hammer can strike it. It does this one way, by keeping a small rearward pressure on the firing pin.
The stock hammer spring has many times the force needed to overcome this.
I suppose it is possible to install a firing pin spring that is too much for the hammer blow to overcome, but why would you do this? AND, who would make it in the first place????
I think Wolff including a new firing pin spring with the recoil spring is NICE thing. I think it is a combination of CYA for Wolff and a "best business practice" for the consumer.
When you replace the recoil spring (for any reason) you could change the slide velocity. When you replace the stock spring with a heavier one, you are doing it to intentionally change the slide velocity.
Rather than look at it as "they are selling me something I don't need", you might look at it like "they are saving me the trouble (and expense)" of buying it separately, IF you find you need it? And, (one assumes) that it is matched to the new recoil spring.
The way I see the logic is that since you are replacing the recoil spring, we assume a degree of failure is the reason. Since your recoil spring is now suspect (otherwise why replace it?), your firing pin spring could be, as well. So including a new firing pin spring in the package is a nice touch, I think.
A while back I got some replacement recoil springs for one of my non-tilt barrel pistols, which does have an inertia type firing pin. I also got new firing pin spring as part of the package. There was nothing hidden about it, no hint of charging me for an "extra" part, their description of the recoil spring package included the new firing pin spring. It was not "snuck in" on me, I knew up front what I was buying.
There are three reasons I can see why someone would replace the recoil (or any other) spring. #1) you think you need to, because of, #2) the gun is not functioning in the desired manner, or #3) a set periodic maintenance cycle (such as round count).
There are those who will tell you that you should replace the springs at 5,000 rounds (or whatever their chosen number is). I won't say this is a bad idea, what it is, is a PM. Preventive Maintenance. It may not be strictly necessary, but it tends to keep one out of trouble. Nothing wrong with that, as long as he cost isn't prohibitive.
I was USAOC&S trained Small Arms Repairman in the mid 70s. At that time, (and before, can't say for certain since,
) there were two standards for serviceability of the 1911A1 recoil spring and the firing pin spring. There was one standard for the mainspring (hammer spring) and the same standard for the sear spring.The one standard common to all of the spring was functional operability. As long as it worked, it didn't need replacement. This was the only standard for the mainspring & sear spring. For the recoil and firing pin springs, there was an additional standard. And it was LENGTH.
IIRC the minimum length of the firing pin spring was "longer than the firing pin". For the recoil spring, it was a minimum length in inches. As long as the springs were longer than that, AND they worked, they were serviceable.
Round count didn't matter, and indeed, was never kept.