Rocky Road
Retired Screen Name
Have any of you heard about the new cartridge that Marlin and Hornady are bringing out?
Just heard from an old friend who participated in field testing of this and the .376 Steyr last weekend. Results were disappointing due to the bullet design. I have every confidence they can straighten this out.
Below is a compilation of e-mails with Jim and my son, which I thought might be informative and stimulating in this forum.
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I'm just back from a deer/hog hunt on the Nail Ranch, north of Albany. Hornady Ammunition wanted us to test two new cartridges on game. They were the .450 Marlin...a straight-walled case driving a 350 gr. bullet at 2000 fps, and the .376 Steyr...225 gr. bullet at 2600 fps. I think Jeff Cooper may have had a hand in the .376 Steyr, as it is in his Scout Rifle.
I shot a darn nice 10-point buck with the .450 Marlin (in a Marlin Guide Gun) and this is undoubtedly the first head of game ever taken with the cartridge. Shot a 200 lb pig with the Steyr. Both bullets were way too soft and they need to toughen them up before either cartridge will do for bear or elk.
Quiet weekend, on the creek, planned around here. I'll get some writing done and mostly just lay around. Let me hear from you whenever you have time.
</> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </>
Then I wrote the following to him and was overcome by curiosity and phoned him--got SOME of information but will have to wait on the rest.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Outlaw--
I'm excited for you being on the cutting edge of — of, well, RIFLE(!!) Load development.
Hummmf--I seem to recall some gunscribbler telling me he didn't care about shooting anything with a rifle because they PAY him to shoot stuff with pistols, but not with rifles.
Oh, Well, for chance to be FIRST on game with a new load, I'd probably do a freebie, too.
[Him: THIS Time they pay me.]
QUESTIONS--
Was this a standard Guide Gun? Is that a 16 or 18 inch barrel? Still the four-shot mag?
What kind of sights did they furnish? [Semi buckhorn std--four x scope for this hunt.]
Cartridge--
What is the parent case? What about length? [Apparently new case--possibly of .458 Mag extraction--It has a belt, to keep folks from loading straight case into old trapdoor .45-70s. They
really wanted to market a high powered .45 rifle/carbine but were afraid to advocate use of Garrett and other ctgs which are way, Way, WAY above SAAMI standards. Can't blame them too much. ]
What was headstamp on the cases? You said Hornady sponsored the
shoot, but I am curious. They used to stamp FRONTIER.
Confidentiality--May I tell others or is this in confidence? [No Problem there. ]
/ / / / / / / / / / / /
The load they have, the bullet, anyway, is
way too lightly constructed. Jim described in some detail the shots they
took. He started with the .450 Marlin on Deer, while another writer used
the .376 on deer. Then they swapped off and went for hogs. I think he
said one bullet went thru deer side-to-side. All three other bullets stayed
in the game. I will personally testify that 200-pound feral hawgs are
muy duro, but either of these loads should be able to go all the way thru
such a critter, more especially a deer (they field dressed about 130) from
any angle. Oh, well, that's why they hold field testing. He says that the
recovered bullets were classically rolled back and mushroomed.
I think they needed less classic rollback and more penetration.
I'll bet they're REALLY glad they didn't spring for arrangements at exotic
game concern for big stuff, like nilgi, or, worse still, Cape buff.
Do any of you recall anything on the Scout page or in Coopers Commentaries,
about anybody having actually KILLED anything with the .376 Steyer?
A BELTED straight .45 rifle case seems strange at first glance, but it does make sense, there are a lot of people who would look at a box of over-the-counter ammo, see ".45- 70" and neglect to read all the other cautions. His old--or replica--trap door Springfield is a .45-70. So, he obtains a detonation, and gets a lawyer, and---
you can see why Marlin wouldn't want any of THAT action. I haven't heard of any such problems when someone has to actively seekout specially loaded ammo, like Garrett's, and pay big-bucks-plus-shipping to obtain it.
On the other hand, looks as if Marlin DOES want some of this high power action with their neat big bore carbines. This way they can have off-the-shelf near-magnum performance without exceeding SAAMI specs, because they, and Hornady, get to write a whole new set of SAAMI specs, for a belted case that simply WILL NOT CHAMBER in a .45-70.
That's all I know now. Everyone else in the shooting world will know more than I in a week, but it is kinds interesting, being "in the know" early on. Almost every time I learned of something new early in the game I had to be sworn to secrecy and couldn't tell anyone until it was published.
Best regards--
RR
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
Just heard from an old friend who participated in field testing of this and the .376 Steyr last weekend. Results were disappointing due to the bullet design. I have every confidence they can straighten this out.
Below is a compilation of e-mails with Jim and my son, which I thought might be informative and stimulating in this forum.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
I'm just back from a deer/hog hunt on the Nail Ranch, north of Albany. Hornady Ammunition wanted us to test two new cartridges on game. They were the .450 Marlin...a straight-walled case driving a 350 gr. bullet at 2000 fps, and the .376 Steyr...225 gr. bullet at 2600 fps. I think Jeff Cooper may have had a hand in the .376 Steyr, as it is in his Scout Rifle.
I shot a darn nice 10-point buck with the .450 Marlin (in a Marlin Guide Gun) and this is undoubtedly the first head of game ever taken with the cartridge. Shot a 200 lb pig with the Steyr. Both bullets were way too soft and they need to toughen them up before either cartridge will do for bear or elk.
Quiet weekend, on the creek, planned around here. I'll get some writing done and mostly just lay around. Let me hear from you whenever you have time.
</> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </> </>
Then I wrote the following to him and was overcome by curiosity and phoned him--got SOME of information but will have to wait on the rest.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Outlaw--
I'm excited for you being on the cutting edge of — of, well, RIFLE(!!) Load development.
Hummmf--I seem to recall some gunscribbler telling me he didn't care about shooting anything with a rifle because they PAY him to shoot stuff with pistols, but not with rifles.
Oh, Well, for chance to be FIRST on game with a new load, I'd probably do a freebie, too.
[Him: THIS Time they pay me.]
QUESTIONS--
Was this a standard Guide Gun? Is that a 16 or 18 inch barrel? Still the four-shot mag?
What kind of sights did they furnish? [Semi buckhorn std--four x scope for this hunt.]
Cartridge--
What is the parent case? What about length? [Apparently new case--possibly of .458 Mag extraction--It has a belt, to keep folks from loading straight case into old trapdoor .45-70s. They
really wanted to market a high powered .45 rifle/carbine but were afraid to advocate use of Garrett and other ctgs which are way, Way, WAY above SAAMI standards. Can't blame them too much. ]
What was headstamp on the cases? You said Hornady sponsored the
shoot, but I am curious. They used to stamp FRONTIER.
Confidentiality--May I tell others or is this in confidence? [No Problem there. ]
/ / / / / / / / / / / /
The load they have, the bullet, anyway, is
way too lightly constructed. Jim described in some detail the shots they
took. He started with the .450 Marlin on Deer, while another writer used
the .376 on deer. Then they swapped off and went for hogs. I think he
said one bullet went thru deer side-to-side. All three other bullets stayed
in the game. I will personally testify that 200-pound feral hawgs are
muy duro, but either of these loads should be able to go all the way thru
such a critter, more especially a deer (they field dressed about 130) from
any angle. Oh, well, that's why they hold field testing. He says that the
recovered bullets were classically rolled back and mushroomed.
I think they needed less classic rollback and more penetration.
I'll bet they're REALLY glad they didn't spring for arrangements at exotic
game concern for big stuff, like nilgi, or, worse still, Cape buff.
Do any of you recall anything on the Scout page or in Coopers Commentaries,
about anybody having actually KILLED anything with the .376 Steyer?
A BELTED straight .45 rifle case seems strange at first glance, but it does make sense, there are a lot of people who would look at a box of over-the-counter ammo, see ".45- 70" and neglect to read all the other cautions. His old--or replica--trap door Springfield is a .45-70. So, he obtains a detonation, and gets a lawyer, and---
you can see why Marlin wouldn't want any of THAT action. I haven't heard of any such problems when someone has to actively seekout specially loaded ammo, like Garrett's, and pay big-bucks-plus-shipping to obtain it.
On the other hand, looks as if Marlin DOES want some of this high power action with their neat big bore carbines. This way they can have off-the-shelf near-magnum performance without exceeding SAAMI specs, because they, and Hornady, get to write a whole new set of SAAMI specs, for a belted case that simply WILL NOT CHAMBER in a .45-70.
That's all I know now. Everyone else in the shooting world will know more than I in a week, but it is kinds interesting, being "in the know" early on. Almost every time I learned of something new early in the game I had to be sworn to secrecy and couldn't tell anyone until it was published.
Best regards--
RR
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
