New Buf Stomper: The 505 Burns!

M

MAD DOG

New member
Legendary pistol and rifle smith Dane Burns of Issaqua, Washington has done it again.
He has taken the .416 Rifby case, and necked it out to .505. WOWEE!
This little beauty can toss a 500 grain pill of buffalo medicine at 2400 fps with ease.

He is building them on the CZ/BRNO .416 actions, so you get a 4+1 magazine capacity.
He is using excellent barrels, and the weapons are printing 1" @ 100 yard groups with iron sights.

I gotta have one.
Brass is easy, as RCBS is already cataloging the dies for this round.
All you have to do is run a .416 Rigby case through the neck expander one time, and then load it. Dane has all of the specs.
Call him at 425-391-3202.
 
I have to wonder what this round would do to one of our tiny Florida deer....

"Hey, I found a hoof and a chunk o' antler off this one....."

:)
 
Not to say anyting negative about Dane and the great work he dies but why? All these "new" variations on the big boomers are great but why bother when the .460 Weatherby is avaialble?

Other than a slightly larger diameter bullet, what do you get from this other than something different? You certainly don't get more power. My normal .460 load pushes a 500 gr. bullet at 2,600 fps. Dies and brass are easy to find and I bet the standard .45 cal bulllets are allot cheaper than the larger ones for the 505.

All these new variations are great and I am extremely tempted myself but for a big boomer you plan on shooting allot (that is why I have mine, shoot regularly) the .460 is the way to go.
 
You folks are going to get me into trouble.LOL. I was just about over my addiction for wanting a good ole 505 Jeffery or somthing along those lines and now you come up with this? AUGHHHHH!!!

Well I guess I gotta go tell the wife we're gonna have a new toy again sometime.Oh well she'll understand...I hope.

Best wishes Best luck Poacher.
 
To answer the question of "Why?" raised by Intel6:

The .460 Weatherby case is essentially a necked up .416 Rigby case with a belt on it.
Belts are less than desirable for optimum feeding on big bore Dangerous Game rifles.

Since the new Burns cartridge has no belt, it stacks and feeds better in the magazine, has much more stomp than the .505 Jeffries, and makes a bigger hole than the .460 Weatherby.
Bigger holes are better holes. :D

The .505 Burns case will also push bullets up to 700 grains, something that the .460 Weatherby case can not do. Since the brass is easily available, and no one in their right mind is skimping on bullets so they can plink with this, ultimately bullet cost is no biggy.
You gotta pay to play.
The .505 Burns with a 500 grainer will do better than 2400, please note that I previously stated that it would do that easily.
I should have made a direct comparison to the global standard .458 Win Mag (which pales by comparison) at the time. Mea culpa.
I believe that Dane had a figure up in the 2600+ range, but ask him.

Think of it as a weapon capable of doing about 60% of what a M2 .50 BMG rifle would do, but in a package that is about 1/3 the weight. I get all wiggly inside just thinking about it.

If you would like to discuss this online with Dane, got to his "Real World" Forum at: http://www.tacticalforums.com



[This message has been edited by MAD DOG (edited November 04, 2000).]
 
Mad Dog covered most of it but let me tell you why from my perspective.

First let's talk bullets. No question the .45 cal bullets are cheaper. But that doesn't make them better. Even Col. Cooper's pet "BABY" shot through EVERYTHING. The 460 Weatherby is worst to that effect and is a terrible design on stock and action let alone the silly ass design of a belted case for dangerious game.
The 375 gets away with it only because of its major taper in case design. The 505 is a flat 10% increase in frontal area on the .458 bullet. By all accounts the impact results of a .50 cal over a .45cal are substantial.

No one that I have ever heard of who has a choice uses the standard 460 Weatherby for dangerious game. Although there are a few Paul Robert's Rigby's that can make a good case for it. More the rifle making the cart instead of the cartridge making the rifle I'm afraid.

Like MadDog said BIGGER is BETTER! But you need to put that energy where it will do some good not just sailing through thin air on the other side of a Buff or a 1500# Brownie.

Yes the 505 Burns will push a 700 gr bullet to 2500fps but not in THIS kid's gun!!!

I wanted a round that would EASILY (37/38K CUP) push a Woodleigh 525 gr bullet at 2300fps. That is plenty to kill anything that walks, ANYTHING, easily. It is a lot easier to master shooting a 525 at 2200 or 2300fps than it is a 500 @ 2600. I find a huge difference between the two. As do most others. All of this is to the 505's benefit.

The cases are easy to form as mentioned, the bullets are of course a bit pricey but the brass is reasonable in 450 Dakota form and the sizing is easy.

Most importantly the round is one, if not the most effecient big bores. It is the most effecient 50 cal by far in 505 Burns form. The case feeds better than anything but the Jefferies and will fit in a 3.60" box like the new Classic Model 70. Although I am currently only building on the CZ550 because it is less hazzle for what I want and gives me the option of the new 600gr Woodleigh bullet if I want it later on.

But why? A 416 or even a 458 Lott looks pretty pathetic when you are in pouring rain, standing knee deep in the muskeg, looking up at a pissed off Brownie that seems a WHOLE lot bigger than 1500#s.

That is THE reason I designed a new 505. If you have been there it makes PERFECT sense.
 
Please go to this page http://www.accuratereloading.com/videos.html and download one of the videos on the 577 TRex to see why you might not want a 750 grain bullet doing 2600 fps. from a 13 lb or so rifle. Please note, these videos are all over a Meg. I like Mr. Burn's idea!
Hank

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"The harshest tyranny is that which is under the protection of legality and the banner of justice." Montesquieu

[This message has been edited by HankL (edited October 30, 2000).]
 
Looks like a fun project, I've seen several CZ actions around FS with the .416 bolt. The price mentioned seemed outragous in that the complete CZ rifle in .416 is way under a grand. Am I missing somethimg? $3500 for a rebarreled combloc boltgun? henry
 
that guy in the video is an idiot, he is holding the gun like a city slickin' sissy!

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454Casull when it absolutely Has to be destroyed.
 
Henry,

I guess it always pays to ask what you get for your money.

While you certainly could rebarrel a CZ and go shoot it in 505 Burns with a small investement of $600 plus change for the rifle and another $300 to $500 on the rebarrel depending on who did the work. You wouldn't have a very effective or reliable dangerious game rifle IMO.

For the $3500 on a 505 rifle from my shop you get a number of things that make it a serious use gun. Not in detail, but some of what you get for $3500 besides the base gun or action to start with is a new barrel, a new English style stock, new stock recoil lugs and bedding, fine point panel checkering, new bolt handle, new 3 position safety, regulated express sights and COMPLETE reliability..........something renoun in English style "best grade" guns.

That is what you get for $3500 plus the load development and reamers and dies being available to chamber it.

You get what you pay for in this case, a best grade dangerous game rifle. At $3500 it is damn cheap for what you get. In a .50 cal DG rifle it can not be beat for quality at that price.

It you are concerned about the price of a 505 Burns from BCP, I suggest you look else where and get a stock CZ in 416 Rigby and shoot it, as is. They are exceptional rifles for the price.

Dane Burns www.burnscustom.com

[This message has been edited by Dane Burns (edited October 31, 2000).]
 
I watched about 8 of these 577 T-Rex videos (cable modem at the office). Did anyone shoot this thing without dropping it and/or getting knocked on thir a**? Last time I checked, single-shots weren't recommended for dangerous game. Even the video of the 700 Nitro showed a manageable recoil. Why not just make a 15 lb 50 BMG bolt action? Is the cartridge illegal for hunting in most of Africa?
 
JWR There were a few of the videos showing this bugger being fired from the bench! In their hunting section the T Rex was never mentioned. A few guys held on to the rig but most of the Victims looked like they were in a 25 yd 22 cal position before they touched it off. I still like Mr. Burns idea!
 
Hmm...I guess I didn't realize so many folks had Buffalo stomping through their backyards. Reminds me of the '70s and the "Weekly Wildcats." (Oh! Monday rolled around again..it's time to develop a new wildcat load!"

[This message has been edited by Frontsight! (edited November 03, 2000).]
 
I guess if you think the newest 505 is a weekly wildcat then you haven't done much home work on the 45 and bigger calibers.

The effeciency of the 458 Winchester and the ineffeciency of the 505 Gibbs for example are well know when loaded with modern powders.

With little fan fare and almost no publication to date this 505 seems to be going some where. (I won't disagree with the need for a 505 but when has need ever been inserted into the gun world ;) The 505 Burns will easily fit into the 416 Rigby guns and better yet it will fit into a standard magnum action like the current Winchester Classic with a 3.60" mag box. It is the most effecient 50 cal and it will get the job done by all counts. That is also why I am getting more and more calls for a faxed set of chamber prints on this 505.
 
True, I haven't, but with less and less of Africa being open to hunting, I can't see where a customer base would be growing. As far as using the rifles in another continent, there's nothing that requires that much power to kill. I'm never one to say, "There's not a point, so get rid of it." but I am the type to say, "There's not enough reason to re-invent the wheel, so stick with what works."
 
Ok, Frontsight :D Just a couple of notes to help out here. There is more hunting going on in Africa now than there has been in 50 years and of better quality they say than in the last 50 to boot. Safari Club vendors sold out of hunts last year in record time.
That is a pretty good example of why a better big bore can always be used. It is why there are so many more big Doubles being produced and SOLD now than there ever were in the '20s or 30's.

There are WAY more buffalo available now and Elephant has recently come back to "fair" game status.

The only animal that warrents a 505 IMO on this side of the pond is a Brown Bear, at spitting distance, during a self defense shooting, which is why I bacame interested in the 505 and did the research in the first place.

I walk more than I shoot this gun in the field. As a kid 30 years ago I understood the difference between what it took to stop a 1500# bear, that had never seen a human and the Montana Inland Grizzley.

The wheel of your comment was designed around the turn of the century. Unlike the Browning 1911, the 470 Nitro and the 505 Gibbs have't been able to keep up with the design changes of good powder and better brass or for than matter a smaller and lighter and better bolt actions. 458 Win Mag isn't any better because it has a silly ass case design with a belt and is infact too small even with hand loads. All the belted cases are a dead end for design. Dakota didn't go far enough. They didn't for see the need either. But most of the professionals who do shoot "nasty buggers" off at arms distances, think a BIG gun is a fine idea. 500 Nitro is a working gun, so is a 470 or a 500 Jefferies. 505 Burns fits right in there for ease of shooting and recoil. Its design is 90 years newer to boot. This 505 actually takes advantage of the current brass and powder and better yet Rifle design.

If you don't have the need, don't build one ;) I use mine a couple weeks in the summer, when I get the chance. After using a 416 or a 458, the 505 feels **perfect** in my little paws clawing through a typical SE Alaska bramble patch.
 
Frontsight,
I would just like to add that I am not one for new, gimmicky wildcats. They remind me too much of all the wasted times I spent dreaming of unobtainable super model centerfolds when I was a pubescent teenager. I also dislike folks that spout off about things that they clearly have no up to date information on.
When you state that there is "nothing that requires that much power to kill", you are clearly talking through your arse.
I have only one word for you by way of rebuttal:
Kodiak!

When something that purports to be truly useful and novel comes along, I like to check it out. Especially if I know and trust those that are pointing me in that direction.
When Dane told me about this, I became interested because I KNOW Dane is not one for wasting his time whacking off on ridiculous projects.
I examined this Burns 505, and I am satisfied that there is both a need and a place for it. I am going to get one for my South African hunting buddy, and one for myself as soon as I can muster the $$ to do so.

See you in the bush,
Mad Dog
 
Mad Dog, the reamer is available anytime you need it. But you already knew that ;)

How many knives and swords do I get for a trade against a completed rifle?

This red head will SHOOT me for asking :D
 
OK, guys, I guess I ought to give up on this one. I have better things to do with my time. However, Mad Dog, when you say this:

"When you state that there is "nothing that requires that much power to kill", you are clearly talking through your arse."
I have only one word for you by way of rebuttal:
Kodiak!


then you immediately insinuate that until the 505 Gibbs, Kodiak could not be killed by any other cartridge. That's simply not true. On the other hand, maybe a special report to all Alaskan hunters should be made, telling them that depending on their hot-loaded .45-70 cartridges for bear defense is just plain stupid, and they might as well have had BB guns. What a fool I and others have been.
 
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