new ammo & pistol we civilians can't have

D

dZ

New member
does this bother you?
7.82S x 24 ammo system...

From discussion with end user groups, this system will only be made available to Police Military and government units.

Finally, the LW 7.82S x 24 System is under evaluation for retrofit into a number of other OEM weapons including the new generation of polymer pistols.
http://www.leitner-wise.com/lw782sx24.html

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"walk softly and carry a big stick, one that goes bang in .308 is fine"
 
As an aside, has anyone tried using spitzer bullets in 7.62x25 Tokarev rounds? Would that make them more useful for defeating tough hides or would the 1500fps velocity limit the penetration anyway?
 
Just what ordnance sergeants everywhere need - an oddball round to stock for the SpecOps guys.

Now if this becomes widespread, how do you keep civilian manufacturers from using it?

I'd love to see Jeff Cooper's comments on a new round like this.
 
Does anyone think (as I do) that this round is too fast and too small (cross-section) and too pointy (armored piercing) for any useful civilian purpose?

- Ron V.

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Ron V,

Yep. It serves only the "useful" purpose of easily defeating soft body armor with powerful short bursts. Of course, many will instantly acquire a newfound necessity for this feat...

Also, it is intended to defeat the most important tool a street cop has, the ballistic vest. I would rather not have the round, than have to hear about the line officers killed- something which you can gaurantee the anti-gun lobby will grandstand about each and every time it happens.

Erik
 
That's cool, I'll just use my "PC" Winchester .30-30 to penetrate protective vests. Shhh, don't let the Demofags know that my innocent looking deer rifle can slice and dice kevlar!!!

Oh, yeah, it does kind of piss me off that I can't own one of those, legally...
 
That cartridge is old news, on the cover of on of the 'zines about a year ago. Everyone thought it was great, but it was implied then that it was non-civilian. I agree with Erik.

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The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.
 
The bad guys are getting more resourceful and this round is tacticly an excellent multi purpose round (Vehicle penetration,light armor etc. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hksigwalther:
Does anyone think (as I do) that this round is too fast and too small (cross-section) and too pointy (armored piercing) for any useful civilian purpose?

- Ron V.

[/quote]



[This message has been edited by Siggy (edited January 16, 2000).]
 
Well, here's the problem (I can see) with a law abiding civilian using it. Going up against a bad guy or bad guys in armored vehicles is remote. Going up against BGs with body armor is not as remote but still very small. It is more likely that I would go up against a BG without armor.

Now, using the small, fast, pointy to defeat any armor is fine but I don't think it'll provide much stopping power, particularly after all those layers it just defeated. More importantly, if the BG is not armored (vehicle or personal) that round is going to go through them like Ex-Lax, painful but endurable. The BG will keep on coming. And...after that round goes through, it's going to keep going until it hits enough solid people or objects to stop.

In my opinion, I think it's better to go with regular (HP) rounds and go for head shots against BGs with armor than to go with AP rounds that would have little effect on non-armored BGs and massive effects on innocent bystanders. I don't think I'll ever have the opportunity to shoot at BGs in heavily armored vehicles. If so, I'll run for appropraite cover.

- Ron V.

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If I remember correctly, this round is either a .40 S&W or a 10mm necked down to .224. I believe it is/was also known as the .224 BOZ.

This round came out at least a year ago, I think Guns and Ammo carried a report on it. As far as I'm concerned, if this round is does all it's claimed--why haven't we heard more about it?

Also, they claim velocities in excess of that achieved by the 5.56X45 NATO (.223 Rem), out of a .40 S&W case and a six-inch barrel. When asked how this is accomplished, the manufacturers cite a "proprietary powder loading process", but I don't se the pressure that I would expect on their published pressure curves.

They're going to have to let me get my furry paws on one, before I'll believe it does what they claim.

LawDog
 
.224 Boz and 5.7x28mm signify a new trend in ammunition development by European arms companies. They're "inventing" new small arms cartridges -- whose dimensions are considered commercial proprietary data -- and patenting the cartridge's dimensions. This prevents others (government arsenals and commercial entities) from producing and using/selling the new cartridge (or a firearm that's chambered to fire it) without a licensing agreement and payment of royalties.

In addition to inventing new cartridges, the Europeans are "inventing" phoney new "needs" (or "missions") for these cartridges (and weapon systems), that, somehow, can't be handled by existing small arms cartridges/weaponry.

If there's an actual niche that needs to be filled, I expect an enterprising American will apply a little Yankee ingenuity and "invent" a domestic cartridge or chamber an existing cartridge/weapon (.22 Hornet and a Desert Eagle, maybe?), and market it to both the public and armed forces/police without BATF interference/restrictions.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
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