New 22 in the fold

T

Tim R

New member
New 22 in the fold with range report

I bought a Winchester 61, prewar (1938) in nice shape for the age. No it's a 22 S, L , L Rifle. For those who don't know it's a take down pump 22. I understand the Win 61 was made to compete with the Remington 12. My question is why does the Winchester 61 demand high dollars while the Rem 12 does not?

Any ways I got the 61 home, cleaned and oiled the rifle. I had much fun taking the bolt out but once I figured it out and with the help of internet instructions all went well.

My wife thought I was nuts because I function tested the rifle at 4 AM. I got off work at 2 AM, what the hell? The rifle shoots I just don't know how well yet.
 
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My question is why does the Winchester 61 demand high dollars while the Rem 12 does not?
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Well, it's like this: supply and demand.
* First off, Remington made about 832,000 Model 12 rifles, Winchester made about 344,000 Model 61 rifles, so the Winchester is relatively rarer.
* Next, the Winchester was a more expensive rifle when it was made, and arguably better made, with better wood and finish, so it will command a premium.
* Then, remember that just about anything Winchester is commanding a premium these days. Whether it makes sense or not is another issue, but it's that old supply and demand thing again, because they aren't making them anymore. Of course, they aren't making 1981 Chevy Citations anymore either (and it's a good thing), but collectors don't like hearing things like that.
* And finally, since there is collector interest, the prices seem to rise on their own, regardless of supply or demand. Collectors, who have lots of money invested in Winchester collections, are not likely to let the value of their investment be eroded by the numerous guns finding their way onto the market as the older generation dies. They snatch them up and part them out if they are not pristine or collectable, that way the price for their collection does not fall. For example, about 25 years ago, a collector died and his collection of 10,000+ Winchesters was to be put up for auction. A group of collectors joined forces to buy up the collection, ostensibly to keep prices artificially high (conspiracy theory, there).

Anyway, congratulations on the Win 61, enjoy it.
 
Also, most if not all model 61s had grooved receivers and.....

they are ALL pre 64....they discontinued the model 61 in 1963....

Like Scorch said, are they actually definitely better? Probably not, but a lot of people would have you believe that and they are certainly more collectible than other 22s of the same era regardless of quality. Kind of like a S&W 27 vs a Colt Python, IMO.
 
I have used and collected both the Remington model 12's and the Winchester model 61's. Both great guns of utmost quality and construction. I love them both. However I have to admit the Winchester is a far better design in my book and much better finished and held to much higher and tighter tolerences. That being said I have always seemed to shoot more accurately with the Remingtons. Both great guns with different design. An misconception from an above member , who is usually quite accurate in his statements, only the last 8 years of production Winchesters were groved for scope mounting.
 
I have to give a little history one this rifle as most might find it interesting. I bought the rifle off of Gun Broker from a PD which was selling off their evidence guns rather than destroying them. This 61 had been inventoried in 1992 but as I was told there was no paper work why it was there. I did not pay full value to get this rifle, but I did make out.

My father in law had a 61 in 22 mag which looked like it had been removed from the box and placed in his safe. When my father in law passed my wifes brother decided he wanted the 62 and left me a pre 64 mdl 70 in 300 H&H that is also in very good condition. Any way the 62 the father in law had peaked my interest.

I have a old friend who played around with the Remington mdl 12's. I can remember when those were going for $120.00. Course back then you could by an 03 all day for $250.00 and get a nice one.
 
An misconception from an above member , who is usually quite accurate in his statements, only the last 8 years of production Winchesters were groved for scope mounting.
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Sorry for the wrong info. I was told about the grooved receivers by a Winchester collector friend who told me thats why model 61s are more popular than model 62s. I suppose I'm more into other winchester models myself.
 
The grooved receivers do add to the value of the 61 but they did not come until later. Mine being a pre war increased value by $400.00 over a post war. I've been getting quit a education.
 
I belong to a club which has an indoor 50 ft. 22 range. I have a key. ;) I asked a buddy of mine if he wanted to go shoot tonight. We both knew it was going to be a late night, getting to the range at about 10PM.

I loaded up with 10 rounds of CCI standard and fired at my target from the bench. I was please with the group, would have been better with a scope but what could I do. The group was high and to the left.

Next I tried Wolf Match. I fired ten rounds and it duplicated the group with the CCI. Again group was high and to the left.

I checked the rear sight and it's as far down as it will go. I then tried some Fedeal match that comes in a bulk package and is at our local Wal Mart. The ten round group opened up to twice the size of the CCI and Wolf groups. The center of the group was of course high and to the left.

I did not have a drift or hammer with me so for the rest of the night I shot CCI and held low and to the right.

These are neat little rifles. The rifle did not have any feeding or ejecting problems at all. There was only one fail to fire. This was the 3rd or 4th round out of 3 cases of CCI standard that has failed to go off the first time. The rim looked like it had been hit hard enough. I tried it again and it fired.

Once I get the front sight drifted I believe this little rifle will be a tac driver. But I do need my memory adjusted. To move the bullet impact to the right I would need to drift the front sight to the left? I know I would be moving the rear sight to the right to go right. Ah Ha! Light bulb comes on. I have a Erma LA 22, looks like a Luger, that always shoots to the left. Since I got the Erma from my father in law when he passed, I never thought about the front sight until now. It appears to have been drifted left but would need to have a little more left added. The rear sight is not moveable.

Thanks Tim
 
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