Neither is for the 2nd amendment
- Thread starter J. Scott
- Start date
I think that your post is misleading. He stated that he would sign an AWB renewal if it should cross his desk. He also knew that Congress would not renew. There is a huge difference between the two regarding the Second Amendment. He supported the right to conceal carry in Texas.
There is little difference between them with regards to borders.
Misleading post, or one of us is misinformed. We will find out with posts from many that know much more than I on this subject.
There is little difference between them with regards to borders.
Misleading post, or one of us is misinformed. We will find out with posts from many that know much more than I on this subject.
Silver Bullet
New member
Are you pretending that they are equal on this issue ?
1) Review what we know about Bush’s position on RKBA:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151933
2) Review what we know about Kerry’s position on RKBA:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSh...ead.aspx?ID=162
3) Think harder.
---------------
My second link seems problematic; if it doesn't work, try
http://www.nraila.org/ and then click on "John Kerry wants to ban guns in America"
Kerry is terrible. He has voted in the US Senate against gun owners something like 50 times. Kerry has made it clear he is no friend of the NRA.
Bush on the other hand is endorsed by the NRA. A recent edition of American Rifleman, the NRA magazine, had a long interview with Bush. Vice President Cheney spoke at the NRA convention. Bush had NRA officers and others in the gun/sporting world as guests on his Texas ranch.
Bush told the Senate he wanted a "clean" bill to protect firearms manufacturers from frivilous law suits. The antis loaded that bill down with an extension and broading of the AWB, and Bush made no effort to keep the bill from being withdrawn by its sponsors.
While Governor of Texas, Bush signed their shall issue CCW bill into law.
Bush probably could do more, but I do not think "more" is high on his priority list right now.
Bush on the other hand is endorsed by the NRA. A recent edition of American Rifleman, the NRA magazine, had a long interview with Bush. Vice President Cheney spoke at the NRA convention. Bush had NRA officers and others in the gun/sporting world as guests on his Texas ranch.
Bush told the Senate he wanted a "clean" bill to protect firearms manufacturers from frivilous law suits. The antis loaded that bill down with an extension and broading of the AWB, and Bush made no effort to keep the bill from being withdrawn by its sponsors.
While Governor of Texas, Bush signed their shall issue CCW bill into law.
Bush probably could do more, but I do not think "more" is high on his priority list right now.
The NRA ain't always right but it sure as heck is now...
I personally give the NRA a lot of credit and my membership dues. But some gun owners see the NRA as not rigorous (or to use liberal language, not extreme) enough. Given that the NRA has compromised in the past one has to look beyond a person's standing with the NRA to judge whether or not someone is good on guns.
My view is that President Bush is okay on guns. As long as we have pro gunners in Congress to keep him in line he'll do no damage and even some good. Even without a good Congress, the worst we're looking at with him would be a renewal of the AW Ban and even that would be undertaken with reluctance. That would stink but we can count on Bush not to pursue novel gun control or to intimately ally himself with anti-gunners.
But the big point is that John Kerry is wretched on guns. He has voted for virtually every gun ban and gun restriction he could get his hands on. He missed most of his votes in the Senate this year but flew to Washington especially to help an effort to renew the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. If Kerry is elected we'll have renewed efforts at gun control (in the name of fighting terrorism and preventing a Beslan-like massacre here).
At best, we'll see renewed lawsuits against manufacturers, new ATF regulations and we'll certainly lose the initiative in improving our lot. In the middle, we'll have all of that plus some more anti-gun justices on the Supreme Court which should form a majority sufficient to "rewrite" the Second Amendment. At the really sharp end we'll get all of that plus sweeping new regulations banning certain classes of firearms and mandating the registration of those that are grandfathered in.
In short, is neither candidate a single issue gun owner's dream? Of course not. But one of the candidates is certainly a single issue gun owner's worst nightmare. Be sensible and we'll avoid sleepless nights.
I personally give the NRA a lot of credit and my membership dues. But some gun owners see the NRA as not rigorous (or to use liberal language, not extreme) enough. Given that the NRA has compromised in the past one has to look beyond a person's standing with the NRA to judge whether or not someone is good on guns.
My view is that President Bush is okay on guns. As long as we have pro gunners in Congress to keep him in line he'll do no damage and even some good. Even without a good Congress, the worst we're looking at with him would be a renewal of the AW Ban and even that would be undertaken with reluctance. That would stink but we can count on Bush not to pursue novel gun control or to intimately ally himself with anti-gunners.
But the big point is that John Kerry is wretched on guns. He has voted for virtually every gun ban and gun restriction he could get his hands on. He missed most of his votes in the Senate this year but flew to Washington especially to help an effort to renew the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. If Kerry is elected we'll have renewed efforts at gun control (in the name of fighting terrorism and preventing a Beslan-like massacre here).
At best, we'll see renewed lawsuits against manufacturers, new ATF regulations and we'll certainly lose the initiative in improving our lot. In the middle, we'll have all of that plus some more anti-gun justices on the Supreme Court which should form a majority sufficient to "rewrite" the Second Amendment. At the really sharp end we'll get all of that plus sweeping new regulations banning certain classes of firearms and mandating the registration of those that are grandfathered in.
In short, is neither candidate a single issue gun owner's dream? Of course not. But one of the candidates is certainly a single issue gun owner's worst nightmare. Be sensible and we'll avoid sleepless nights.
I can hardly call Bush 'bad' for the 2A. Definitely not perfect, but hardly bad. Read this thread for all the things he has done: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108988
Silver Bullet
New member
What president has been better than Bush in the last 80 years regarding RKBA ?
Good question. What did Carter do?
Reagan was there for the '86 machine gun ban.
Bush Sr. did alot of damage with foreign weapons and defining "sporting purposes", which led to:
Clinton and the AWB, who's renewal would be signed by:
GW Bush.
I'm not aware of any national legislation on firearms during the Nixon, Ford and Carter administrations. Are you?
Reagan was there for the '86 machine gun ban.
Bush Sr. did alot of damage with foreign weapons and defining "sporting purposes", which led to:
Clinton and the AWB, who's renewal would be signed by:
GW Bush.
I'm not aware of any national legislation on firearms during the Nixon, Ford and Carter administrations. Are you?
Silver Bullet
New member
The fact is, Bush didn't sign AWB renewal, because he made sure the Republicans wouldn't let the renewal get to his desk, a fact that most folks here understand and appreciate.
Correct: they did nothing.
My point being, I don't recall any president being as proactive in favor of RKBA as Bush, as evidenced by the following items that occurred during his administration:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151933
If you know of a president with a more impressive RKBA resume that that, let's hear it.
Silver Bullet,
I said "bad" because I don't feel that the President is any great boon to gun ownership. His record is better than some, but mainly for the very reversible and short term actions of his attorney general, and some noted and appreciated inaction on the part of his Republican Congress.
I think it is symptomatic that you would label such a president "good", when he hasn't done anything dramatic to INCREASE our rights. A president that actually spoke out and endorsed an armed populace, worked to repeal previous legislation, removed executive orders or sponsored legislation that expanded and solidified our rights would be about what I'd call "good" for RKBA.
Bush is merely "not so bad" on this issue. The fact that he is the least bad does not transform him into "good". Political expediency demands that the gun-minded voter be pro-Bush, but expediency is all it is. Let's not lose control of our adjectives because of it.
Let's hope that AWB 2 is just not something that needed to be put off until after the election. Nothing like a lame duck to do the dirty work.
I said "bad" because I don't feel that the President is any great boon to gun ownership. His record is better than some, but mainly for the very reversible and short term actions of his attorney general, and some noted and appreciated inaction on the part of his Republican Congress.
I think it is symptomatic that you would label such a president "good", when he hasn't done anything dramatic to INCREASE our rights. A president that actually spoke out and endorsed an armed populace, worked to repeal previous legislation, removed executive orders or sponsored legislation that expanded and solidified our rights would be about what I'd call "good" for RKBA.
Bush is merely "not so bad" on this issue. The fact that he is the least bad does not transform him into "good". Political expediency demands that the gun-minded voter be pro-Bush, but expediency is all it is. Let's not lose control of our adjectives because of it.
Let's hope that AWB 2 is just not something that needed to be put off until after the election. Nothing like a lame duck to do the dirty work.
Silver Bullet
New member
Far more likely if Kerry is elected.
Silver Bullet
New member
Yes, you did.
Patrick Graham
Moderator
Good point...
We have to much to lose in this election to be hair splitting on ideals.
You'll all have to pardon me if I didn't read this thread as a "Vote for ____ because" topic. I think it is pretty damn obvious which candidate one would vote for if you want to have a pro-gun guy in office, but that wasn't what J. Scott posted.
I think we do ourselves a disservice by viewing the best voting choice as a "good" choice. It leads us to believe we have someone looking after us in Washington, and that's a poor attitude to take.
We get this election out of the way, then focus back on pressuring these people, against their "better judgement", to vote for our rights. And we find electable candidates for the next election that will do even more. Maybe even find a "good" candidate or two.
But let's not elect Bush then congratulate ourselves on what good hands 2A is in.
I think we do ourselves a disservice by viewing the best voting choice as a "good" choice. It leads us to believe we have someone looking after us in Washington, and that's a poor attitude to take.
We get this election out of the way, then focus back on pressuring these people, against their "better judgement", to vote for our rights. And we find electable candidates for the next election that will do even more. Maybe even find a "good" candidate or two.
But let's not elect Bush then congratulate ourselves on what good hands 2A is in.