Need some Luger advice (pics)

B

BoogieMan

New member
I want a Nazi Luger because I dont have one. My Luger knowledge is limited to knowing who made them and approx when. But, I would have a very hard time identifying any of them if you handed me one. I simply have no experience. If you have some Luger knowledge please take a look at the pictures and give me an honest opinion of retail value. Its being sold as a Simson Suhl Nazi marked. I plan on limited shooting with this gun.
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Unfortunately you don't show the toggle, but by 1941 the Simpson factory was part of the Gustloff conglomerate and didn't use the Simpson name anymore. Also, the 655 WaA stamp is usually thought to be a Mauser stamp. Together with the black plastic grips I'd think it's probably an East German rework. Value probably around $1000
 
Mapsjanhere- are you saying that most late WWII run Lugers in fair but mismatched condition should bring in the area of $1k?
Best view they have listed of the toggle.

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The OP gun looks like a Vopo; it looks reblued, the "bullseye" plastic grips were one pattern used, and I am not sure about the big "matching" 97 on the rear toggle. And, as said, Simson was long gone by 1941.

I can't say which of the makers of Lugers was "best" but ol' Hermann Goering wanted Krieghoff Lugers for his pilots. Me, I would take a late DWM or peacetime Mauser.
 
I'd say Mauser was the best of the WWII P08s. The frame pictured is Mauser, since of all P08s only the 1941 and 1942 Mausers were actually marked P08 (on the left side near the safety). Mauser didn't use their name, instead a code was stamped on the toggle. S/42, byf - etc. A 1941 should have byf on the toggle.
 
If they are selling that gun as "Simson & Co Suhl" gun, it doesn't match the info in my "Standard Catalog of Luger" (Davis 2006)

According to that reference, the toggle should be marked "Simson & CO Suhl"

Simpson & Co reworked, and made Lugers for the police & Weimar military from 1922 to 1934. They were put out of business by the Nazis, because they were both a representative of the Weimar era, and Jewish owned.

I think a 1941 "Simpson & CO" highly unlikely because of that. The frame might have come from Simpson, but the rest of the gun as shown probably did not.

Shooter grade. $750 would be a fair price today, but $1000 is more likely to be what they are asking. I'm not up on current Luger market values.

CORRECT Simson & CO Lugers are rare, and worth a premium to collectors. I don't think that one is in that category.
 
Thank you very much gentlemen. The knowledge on this board never disappoints.
I am going to get a copy of Standard catalog of Luger so I can refer to it myself. Often when these things come up its buy on the spot or lose it.
 
44 Amp has it right. Simpson did not make any Lugers after 1934; they were Jewish and their factory was confiscated by the Nazis. Plus the Waffenamt number 655 was that of the chief inspector assigned to Mauser. If the rear toggle is original, it should be marked either "42" or "byf".

BTW, the "97" marking on the rear toggle is bogus.

Jim
 
Boogie, to me the gun screams deliberate fake, not mismatched. The description is wrong. The grips look VoPo, but the rest doesn't match the East German rework style. A true VoPo might not be in the factory original factory condition, but has a known history of service, including one or more overhauls/reworks, and that's usually documented in a lot more proof marks. I think this gun is scrubbed of markings and force matched, the numbers look too sharp after the refinish, especially if compared to the WaA marks. Pretty shooter but not an "honest" gun. Still, the way it looks it would bring $1000 on the table of the gun show just for the looks from someone who buys pretty over correct. Hey, Mitchell Mauser is still around too.
 
I struck out so far on the "standard catalog of luger". I am not going to pay the money the copies are bringing and I have no reply back from the author website.
Is there a book that will give me good information to use during my search for a WWII Luger? I dont mind posting here, but its going to get old for you guys and me pretty fast.
 
Just out of curiosity, what are they asking for a copy of the book? My copy is softcover GunDigest Book with a printed cover price of $29.99.

It was given to me by a friend, to help ID a Luger I bought. He's a GOOD friend!

It may not be the ultimate Luger reference, but it seems pretty good and comprehensive up to the date of publication.
 
There are better references than the Standard Catalog of Luger, which is dated and not very detailed. Better yet, join and post your pics at luger.gunboards.com or lugerforum.com and you will get a very good reading on what it is and what it isn't. Ed Tinker literally "wrote the book" on Simson Lugers and he is a regular on both those forums.
 
I am working on joining Luger Forums. Their Mods are a little slow to approve new members.
I did find some good resources over there and have printed many pages that I can take along on my shopping quests.
 
Holy Crap! :eek::eek::eek:

I had no idea. To me, its just a $30 book a friend gave me. Not the be all, end all totally comprehensive in depth holy writ, just a decent reference book.

The 2006 price guide in the book was probably out of date when it was printed, but I use to gauge, roughly, the percentage of price difference between the different grades of finish, adjusted to recent prices as best I can.

I guess I'll have to start taking better care of my copy!
;)
 
If you're looking for that book on Gunbroker, might try Abebooks.com, the sellers there have a wide range of prices on their wares. Condition is everything, in books or guns, that makes up a large portion of the price. You might find a vendor who thinks he's got just another ten-year old Gun Digest instead of a Gutenberg Bible.
 
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