Need some info

[cntryboy1289]

I had a customer bring in an old side by side SG today. The only thing I could find on the gun is the sn# and W.H. Hamilton on the side plate. It has a broken trigger gaurd that needs to be replaced and the firing pin springs need to be replaced. I can make a new trigger gaurd if I have to, but does anyone know of someone that may have it in stock?

 

[James K]

I can't find any reference to that name, but there is one listed on Gunsamerica, marked Belgium Laminated Steel.

I advise caution on your part. That gun has either Damascus barrels or laminated steel barrels (a version of Damascus) and will be dangerous to fire with any smokeless powder ammunition or maybe even with any black powder ammunition.

Someone in the gun's history knew that and was smart enough to remove the firing pins to keep the gun from being used. If you replace the firing pins, and some one is injured firing it, you will be liable for damages, since you created the dangerous situation by making the gun operable.

I strongly recommend you replace the trigger guard if the owner wants that done, but flat refuse to replace the firing pins, and tell him why. If he gets mad, too bad, but believe me when I tell you that the guy who tells you he won't fire the gun and only wants it for a wall hanger will shoot it the first chance he gets and use Magnum loads. Then he will lose fingers or an eye and you will be paying him two thirds of your income for the rest of your life.

(Edited to add: Sorry, I see it is the firing pin springs, not the firing pins, that need replaced. Anyway, my advice is the same. Don't fix it, and advise him to remove the firing pins and weld up the holes.)

Jim

 

[HunterTRW]

I did some research and came up with the following information from posts made on TFL in the year 2000:

"Foo06-26-2000, 11:24 PM
Hi! I need some help please. We have an old WH Hamilton double-barrelled 12 gauge shotgun. Is there anyone who can help us with information about Hamilton firearms, or point us in the right direction re: finding info about them? I thank you in advance for any help you may be able to offer.

Foo
----------

Dennis06-27-2000, 05:34 AM
Harley Nolden’s our local expert. Look for your thread in his forum:
Harley Nolden’s Institute for Firearms Research.
----------

Harley Nolden06-27-2000, 06:34 AM
Foo:
The Hamilton Arms shotgun is a trade name of the Wiebusch and Hilger Co of New York. The Hamilton falls into the catgory of a "Hardware Gun" in that it was probably made by another company for Wiebusch and Hilger. Many of these shotguns were made or imported by Crescent Arms.

Although the Hamilton is not specifically mentioned in the Crescent Cross Over, the shotgun could have been made by a company in Europe, (Belgium,) especially for Hamilton, a situation similar to the Crescent Company.


CRESCENT ARMS

This Company mfg’d good quality, inexpensive side by side and single Bbl shotguns and was founded in 1883. They were bought by the H&D Folsom Arms Company of New York, importers and distributors of firearms and sporting goods.

After the purchase of Crescent, the Folsom Company was able to offer a complete range of shotguns, imported English, French, Belgium and American made Crescents. By the turn of the century Crescent Arms produced huge quantities of “Hardware Guns” it produced guns under direct contract to distributors, mail order houses and hardware distributors with any brand name the customer requested. Crescent also produced guns for its parent company, as Folsom house brands that were sold to customers that did not want their own brand name.

By the lat 1890's Crescent was producing basically five grades of dbl bbl shotguns offering a model for most tastes. The Crescent /Folsom Arms Company continued this type of business until 1930 when it merged with Davis Warner Arms Corp and became the Crescent-Davis Arms Corp. In 1932 it assets and machinery were bought by Stevens Arms Company, a victim of changing tastes and the depression.

I hope this has been a help.

HJN
----------

fal30806-27-2000, 08:08 AM
According to Side by Sides of the World by Charles E. Carder; Hamilton, W.H.: Belgium proof marks, circa 1870-1880, lower quality, history unknown, 12ga, sidelock, outside hammers, Damascus barrels, pistolgrip, splinter forearm, rib extension, steel buttplate, top lever opener."
----------

Based upon the content of these posts, I would echo Mr. Keenan's comments that this gun should be treated as a wall-hanger only.

Hope this helps.

Good luck, and good shooting!

 

[cntryboy1289]

Thanks a lot for the info

I agree with both of you as to fixing it to shoot. I told him I would either find the trigger gaurd or make a new one and do my best to match the petina, but under no circumstances would I fix it shoot. The right side barrel has a bent firing pin and I told him I would remove the pin so no one ever fired the gun. I need to peen the locking system to tighten it up and that is about it. I couldn't pull anything up on any of the supply houses that I use is why I was asking for the help. He brought me another gun to see if I could use it's trigger gaurd to replace the broken one. I think I will just reshape it and use it instead of trying to find one or make a new one. Some one actually tried to sand blast the other gun and ruined the rib. It is amazing what someone will try to do to an antique. I plan to replace the firing pin spring, but I always grind the pin down to where it won't exit the hole when working on one that has the Damascus barrels. I have worked on quite a few and I know that somebody always tries to fire one just to see what it will do. The first one I worked on the guy actually told me when it was done he was going to fire a test shot off... I fixed him up very quickly. Like you said, he was mad as all get out and wanted me to put the gun back like I found it, but I never did. I really appreciate the help.

 

[James K]

That advice was not pulled out of the air. I once fixed, on orders from the boss, an old Damascus double. The firing pins had been removed (by a previous owner with sense, I guessed), but I made new ones and new springs. The guy swore he wouldn't shoot it, he just wanted it complete for hanging on the wall. Two weeks later he came in with his left hand bandaged where he had lost parts of three fingers firing 2-3/4 Magnum loads in the old gun. Fortunately, he knew he was at fault and didn't sue; actually, he took the whole thing in as good a grace as possible and admitted that I was right and he was wrong.

Today, I have no doubt at all that some tort lawyer would have persuaded him to sue the shop owner and maybe me for millions.

Just FWIW, those guns almost always let go at the handguard, and almost always take part of the hand along. That is where the barrels start to get thin, and smokeless powder has a longer pressure curve than black powder.

Jim