Need lamb tallow for your BP lube?

Z

zippy13

New member
Last year when I made us some BP lube, I was surprised to find that Dixie Gun Works no longer had lamb tallow. I was able to get some lamb suet and render my own tallow.

The local fair is just about over, so the butcher should soon have suet available for a short time. If there's enough interest, I can make some tallow for those of you who make your own BP lube. Or, I can make some more beeswax, tallow and paraffin lube.
 
Just my cost, I'm not starting a business, just trying to help out some BP shooters. IIRC, last year the suet was around $4 a pound. I was thinking I'd try to find a container that would fit in the small fixed-rate priority mail box. How much do you think you might want?
 
Might work fine but there are many other more available products out there that makes very good lube.
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That's true. I just want to try it because it's more traditional.
 
Thanks for the heads up on Dixie's tallow, arcticap. The last time I checked, they were without a supplier.

Since it's back in stock, there's no need for me to bother the butcher this year. Those of you wanting some tallow should probably get it from Dixie while it's available.
 
I did the traditional thing by rendering my own tallow from goat fat (poor old Bambam had to go). It worked very well, but I didn't get much (if any) improvement over beeswax/crisco.
 
Not much improvement over bees wax and crisco? That's right to a certain degree since any ole good lubey stuff works ......depending on how you work it.
In lube pills or woolwads saturated with lube/wax placed right on the powder under the ball any good lube works well.
Olive oil is a good one. Ever notice how difficult it is to crisp up some fried tatters using olive oil? It takes the heat well.
Ever wish to crisp up some fried tatters? Crisco does that well. That's an example of the difference between olive oil and Crisco taking the heat......and blackpowder is hot.
Crisco isn't bad but I'd opt for olive oil. Virgin is the best. I've used Crisco in a muzzleloader rifle on patches. Barrel fouled bad.
It all depends what yer doing. CowBoy Shooters (bless their little hearts) get good results with Crisco and beeswax on bullets. That's with ,like, the PEARL LUBE used and sold on the Cass Site. That's 50/50 wax to lube. That makes fora rather soft bullet lube and......fer that the softer the better. Even more lube....to soften lube pills or wax/lube on wool wads the softer it is the better it keeps yer revolver shootin and shootin with a clean enough barrel and arbor.
Soft lube pills or wool wads with soft lube(more lube in them) clean well but...the accuracy of a revolver can drop off a little probably because soft lube gets squished back into some powder erratically. Each chamber can differ from the nothers some. On bullets in lube grooves......doesn't mess with the powder and softer lube on bullets works better than hard lube with the Holy Black.
Anywhoooooo.......the only commercial lube I buy at times is SPG Lube. It works well. It's beeswax and "the secrete lube ingredient". The secret has been kept well guarded but.......the ones that make the "yellow stuff" bought the secrete. The secret ingredient is in there in SPG since Steve Garbe broutght it to the blackpowder cartridge world and it's in the "yellow stuff" in the tubes. They color it and scent it fer some reason. The secrete ingredient used to be touted as "edible". Wonder if it's olive oil or mutton tallow or a mix of both in the beeswax?
Anywhooooo...a person can get by real well with some other known good lubes fer black if the Mutton Tallow is hard to get.
A person can buy commercial made and retail sold "Lube Pills" too.Ox Yokes Originals sells them and they are usually in the Cabelas Shooters section. Expensive as all get out though. And....I can't vouch fer them because the jar of them I bought to try has been sittin in the barn fer years now since I just always grab my home made lube pills.
 
The ingredients of the yellow stuff in tubes, Bore Butter and Wonder Lube, are essentially mineral oil, micronized paraffin waxes and tincture of wintergreen.
Medicinal grade mineral oil is edible.
 
The story was told in the beginning of SPG lube(where the secrete ingredient was at first),that for the first time anyone went thru a whole long range match and won without ever cleaning the barrel of the rifle.
It was Steve Garbe that won the match with his new lube. Beeswax and one other incredient. On a ranch in the winter out west(must have been ranch sitting for someone) he wanted to fire his Sharps and had no lube but had beeswax. He scrounged around the ranch for something to try as a lube with the beeswax.
Could that have been medicinal mineral oil? Never heard of it. Is that what you buy in the stores?
I've tried mineral oil from the drug store and it was a terrible lube for patches and round ball in the muzzleloader rifle. Did I have the wrong mineral oil?
How did you come to get the info about the "Yellow stuff"?
If mineral oil is good then who uses it? I don't see it anywhere that people use mineral oil. I've heard a coupla folks say it's good to use for blackpowder since it's petro but "very refined". I found out it isn't all that refined and is in the same catagory as gasoline and kerosene and propane and fuel oil and diesel fuel that are all actually ,"paraffine". As best as I remember anyway.Gas and Kerosene are paraffin I'm sure of. I se'ed it on the net in a reliable place about paraffin.
Anyway some have stated mineral oil should be a good lube for blackpowder since it's very refined. I don't agree since I tested it long ago and remember it's a terrible lube. Maybe I remember incorrectly. That happens when you hit 60 years old.
What was I talking about now?:D
Oh right......mineral oil has a flash point of 335 degrees. How can that be a good lube for black powder that burns at 2,000 degrees? Not in there(in the revolvers chambers or rifle barrel) long enough to flash over? I've read olive oil flashes about 600 degrees and canola about 610 degrees. Wouldn't they be better than mineral oil?
Anywhoooo mutton tallow has a higher flashpoint if.....the "Jarmac Oils for Industry data is correct. . It's 2,400 degrees C or 4,352 degrees F according to the data sheet at "Jarmac Oils for Industry". I don't see that as possible?????:confused: I'll have to look elsewhere to verify that.
Looks like blackpowder burning around 2,000 degrees F wouldn't get mutton tallow to it's flashpoint where it gives off gases that can ignite. It's smoke or cloud point is lower than it's flash point. It's smoke point is where an oil creates more fatty acids but the more fatty acids the higher the smoke point gets but flavor degrades.
Anywhoooo.........I'd let my guess go to mutton tallow. That's why I've promoted it for so many years. Other lubes work well enough and just about as good as mutton tallow but mutton tallow is the best by a small margin...if it is available. If I post this it'll become scarce. ha ha ha ha I'll post it any way since it'll help people and I can always go to refined safflower oil(pretty high flashpoint),canola oil or olive oil(pomace grade) since they seem to work as well as mutton...almost.....at least acceptable for what I do.
I guess any organic oil that doesn't react to the blackpowder making fouling worse and has a high flash point would work. Just look it up and pick one.
I thunk....that the oils mixed with beeswax and paraffin have a higher flash point when in suspension in wax....just logiaclly thunkin. Idon't know the flash point of beeswax or soy wax or paraffin wax.
I'll look it up later. Knowing the flashpoint of a suspension for the oil,like wax, would be a good thing to know.....get the wax with the highest flashpoint.
Actually ....thunkin again......the time a lube/wax is in the heat of the blackpowder has to have a bearing on things. I mean.....how long would a lube wax be subjected to the heat of blackpowder burning? Long enough to get much of it to the flash point? I mean....a nano-second in the heat....what would that do?
Time subjected to the heat has to have a bearing on things with wax/lube. Canola oil or olive oil with flash points much lower than mutton tallow work close to the same as a lube that keeps fouling from adhering to a barrels walls.
Gets a little concluatedidly confussin.:eek:
Alright I'm back with a more realistic flashpoint for mutton tallow. I got 475-500 degrees F. That seems more realistic than the other data from the Jarmac Oils for Industry. That gave properties of mutton tallow that industry messin with it might want to know. That flashpoint they gave can't be proper. Freaked ya out did it???ha ha ha :)
Anywhoooooo........what I got is Canola oil is second highest neck and neck with refined safflower oil and pomace grade olive oil and mutton tallow the highest flash point.
Like I said though the waxes and the time the lube/wax is in the "heat of ignition" have to play a role too.
Anywhooooo...by a small margin mutton tallow has the highest flash point over most organic cooking type oils. Look it up. Crisco is only 360 degree flashpoint.
Interesting facts.....safflower oil according to where I last looked is 510 degrees, avacado oil is 510 degrees and soybean oil is 495 degrees flash point.
That puts some oils close to mutton but some over mutton tallows flashpoint.
............I guess avacado and safflower oils would be better for lube than mutton tallow since their flashpoint is higher than mutton tallows........... :eek:
I guess I'll give all fifteen sheets (made in large cookie baking pans) of my wax/lube away before I punch out the LUBE PILLS and get the other lubes and start over. NOT. ha ha
 
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If I post this it'll become scarce. ha ha ha ha
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I doubt it. The minute, minuscule, tad-bit, fraction of a difference that I didn't even notice, is not worth the effort of searching for a product that is already 100 times more scarce than what I find to be perfectly effective. For comparison, many say that actual black powder is a bit more effective than Pyrodex (some disagree). Still, most people buy Pyrodex because they can get it at Walmart and don't have to hassle with mail order and hazmat fees. Believe me, if you use lube with mutton tallow when you go shooting, you'll be the only one that knows. Been there, done that.
 
enyaw said:
How did you come to get the info about the "Yellow stuff"?
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That information came from Mad Monk on the American Longrifles website. He did a mass spectrometry analysis of Bore Butter to identify its ingredients.

enyaw said:
If mineral oil is good then who uses it? I don't see it anywhere that people use mineral oil.
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It's a main ingredient of Bore Butter/Wonder Lube and Ballistol too. Ballistol is also used by many folks as a patch lube.

I'm not sure how important the flash point of the various oils are. But I do suspect that one of the reasons that mineral oil is used is because it is highly stable and will never go rancid or turn into a varnish. It's basically a liquid form of Vaseline which some folks apply as a small bead around their loaded revolver balls.

http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/oils.html

enyaw said:
Could that have been medicinal mineral oil? Never heard of it. Is that what you buy in the stores?
I've tried mineral oil from the drug store and it was a terrible lube for patches and round ball in the muzzleloader rifle. Did I have the wrong mineral oil?
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There's 2 different kinds of medicinal grade mineral oils having heavy or light viscosities which describes their ability to flow at different temperatures.

White Mineral Oils (8042-47-5)

White mineral oils are practically odorless. They are saturated hydrocarbons having carbon numbers mostly from C15 to C50 and come in heavy medicinal grade, light medicinal grade and technical grade. White mineral oils range from non-irritating to mildly irritating to eyes and skin. Medicinal grade oils have a flash point of 185 to 122 degrees Celsius (365 to 430 degrees Fahrenheit), and technical grade oils have a flash point of 171 to 185 degrees C (340 to 365 degrees F). They can accumulate a static charge by agitation or when poured and can float on water. The boiling-point range for white mineral oil is 218 to 643 degrees C (424 to 1,189 degrees F).

http://www.ehow.com/about_5445558_properties-mineral-oil.html
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Gets rather complimanateder confussous doesn't it? :)
I've read that the mutton tallow was considered a good lube going way way back to this time today. I don't believe everything I read anywhoooo but......the first time I took some Dixies Old Zip Patch Lube and mixed it with beeswax my lube pills and conical blackpowder cartridge lube worked well.
I should do some testing again with mineral oil to see how she works.
Back in the day of SPG Lube,that started the thing about seasoning bores and all that and no need to clean between shots and all......the secrete incredient was said ,by the makers of SPG and "the yellow stuff", to be organic and edible.
Could the mineral oil be touted as edible and organic? Some grades of it?
I think the specific gravity of a lube ingredient when it's melted and it's ability to get into and stay in the pores of barrel steel so fouling can't stick would be a trait to look at.
It seems that even though the "toilet bowl installation seals" made of some synthetic now-a-days with something to make it "pliable and sticky" seem to improve a lube. Maybe because it's sticky. I'll throw a hunk of it in my lube/wax at times. I get good reports by folks that I've helped repair or tune a cap&baller when I send them some "lube pills" to use when accuracy testing the gun. They'll say something like," those lube pills/grease cookies you sent really worked well".
I'd like to hear from someone that uses the wax/mineral oil fer a lube and get an idea how that stuff works.
The lube a person uses in a load chain fer cap&baller revolvers and muzzleloader rifles is as important as any other part of the load. May as wel get a good lube then.
Anywhoooo.....they say paraffin wax has some kind of hydrocarbons and if mineral oil does to then maybe.......it could be a good lube since paraffin and it's hydrocarbons makemit compatible with blackpowder.
Anywhooo.... when it got around that mutton tallow was a good lube and it was at Dixies......the supply ran out for awhile.:eek: Hope it doesn't happen again since I like it in lube but....there's always Crisco and safflower oil and canola and the like.
If Mad Monks testing was correct then....mineral oil must be good to go with blackppowder.
Also...if a menber on this forum can get mutton tallow ;)and is willing to render the stuff for people then...he's a good Hombre to have around.
 
When I think of the flashpoint of a lube I think of how my barrel of my cap&baller revolvers gets too hot to hang onto after six shots in fairly fast succession.
 
Back in the mid 1990's, I purchased some mutton fat from around the kidney area, from a local farmer/butcher. At the time, I think I had to wait about a week for him to get in a new supply. Called today, and was told the only way I would obtain any is if I brought in my own sheep! Man how times change! Put in an order from Dixie.
 
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