Need iver johnson .32 safety automatic help

[BULLSTONE]

I just got a old IVER JOHNSON .32 S&W I believe safety automatic serial #
A47463..I am going to attempt to clean her up and replace any necessary parts and that's where I need some help.
This hand gun appears to cycle perfectly and when the trigger is pulled it cycles and the cylinder aligns perfectly with the barrel. The issue I am not familiar with is the play the cylinder has ? is it normal for the cylinder to have alot of play when not cycling ??? if this is not normal how should I address this issue ?
would I need a new sear,lifter or trigger.
The other issue I have is the extractor does not pop up when the barrel is opened ,is this due to a bad extractor spring or extractor cam parts and if so what is a good recommended parts replacement.
I realize the finish looks rough but I think some flitz will go along way to cleaning it up.Any and all help will be gratefully appreciated.
Note have problem uploading pictures ??
Thanks Bullstone

 

[James K]

That gun is a black-powder model, made in 1896. Since the cylinder stop comes up only when the trigger is back, it is pretty normal for the cylinder to have some rotational movement when the hammer and trigger are at rest.

If the cylinder turns all the way and locks up properly in normal operation, don't worry about play when the action is at rest.

On the extractor, the extractor spring returns the extractor; if it does that, it is OK. The problem might be in the cam mechanism. It could be broken or worn, but also could be just dirt and crud. I would try spraying the gun with a gun cleaner and see what happens.

You didn't ask, but someone will surely raise the issue of ammo. That gun was made for black powder but it should be OK for a small amount of firing with modern smokeless powder factory loads if you can find any. But even a box (50) might be enough for the gun to start to shoot loose.

The pictures are OK as far as loading, but the overall shot is of poor quality, so I can't tell anything about condition.

Jim

 

[campingnights]

Looks similar to one I inherited from my great, great Grandfather. Mine is a wallhanger now, but if you do get yours into shootable condition I strongly urge shooting a black powder cartridge ONLY. In researching mine I found it was common to crack the breech end of the barrel using smokeless. When you take off the cylinder on mine the 1-2 mm crack is visible in the barrel. I hope you get yours functioning properly.

 

[Gunfixr]

As mentioned, the cylinder will freely turn unless the trigger is held back. The cylinder locking bolt is a rigid part of the trigger, and swings up into position as the cylinder rotates. This is why the cylinder has very long lead ins to the locking notches.
Also, as mentioned, firing smokeless powder loads can crack the barrel at the bottom of the forcing cone where it is thin. You can see this spot with the cylinder removed.
Only blackpowder loads should be fired in it.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

1st off you appear to have a factory "snubbie" they are much more uncommon than the 3" barrel guns...

you've gotten sound advice so far...

I hand load, & don't shoot factory ammo in my guns, but do shoot smokeless in all my guns, exclusively...

I would not shoot factory ammo in the gun, it's very hard on them, for the reasons list above...

yours is the exact type of gun I like to collect ( early CCW type guns )

I have a smokeless load that is safe to use in any gun that times correctly, it uses a soft lead round ball, & a pinch of Trailboss... in fact, I'd bet, that unless your barrel is extensively pitted ( which it very easily could be, being of black powder era )... the gun would likely fire the ball, to target, with the lead ball, & just a primer, with that short barrel...

again, I would not fire factory ammo in that gun, & your shorter than standard barrel, is more collectable than the normal length barrels...

you can polished the flaked nickel areas, so the exposed base metal is "white" & it'll actually look pretty nice, however those areas will darken easily & quickly with any normal exposure... the extractor is relatively easy to work on, but the lock work is not... so as long as yours appears to function Ok, the ejector may be fixable...

 

[James K]

Hi, Gunfixr,

Unfortunately, failure of the forcing cone area on many of those old revolvers is not necessarily caused by firing smokeless powder loads; it happens with black powder as well. One known cause is firing British FMJ ".380" loads in guns made for the soft lead .38 S&W loads.

Jim

 

[jdscholer]

And be careful, -- something about these little top-breaks gets under your skin, and the next thing ya know, you're letting another follow ya home.

I cut my teeth on one when I was a kid, and actually turned a broken one (S&W), into a good shooting little pocket pistol. They were never a "high dollar" gun, but the action parts, especially the Smiths, look like they belong in a swiss watch.

If you decide to shoot it at all, make sure your hinge and latch screws are tensioned properly, and it will be better for the problem areas. I also use the gallery load Mag Wheel Man suggests, and with my 32 lemmon squeezer even go as high as 1 gr. of bullseye powder with a cast bullet.

I've never thought the Iver Johnsons were as nice as the Smiths, or HR's, but that little shorty of yours is pretty collectable - among the nuts who collect them. jd

 

[James K]

In general order of topbreak quality, there was S&W, at the top, the best. Then came I.J./US Revolver, followed by H&R. Close behind were guns made by Hopkins & Allen. Guns by Crescent and others follow.

Many S&W's of the topbreak era are still good and reliable enough for serious work, though I can't recommend .32 S&W for defense and the .38's only have 5 shots.

P.S. S&W's were pretty "high ticket" in the day; in 1895, Montgomery Ward sold those double action topbreaks for $12, the same price as a Colt Single Action Army. The cheapest handgun was a spur trigger single shot, at $.50; the cheapest revolver was the "Defender", a spur trigger .22, at the magnificent sum of $.74, plus $.10 postage. At that time, the average workman made $1 or maybe $1.50 a day, so $12 was a lot of money.

Jim

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I think the refinish of this little single action 38 S&W turned out alright

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I love guns of this era... however not all shoot as nice as a modern gun, often the small parts had thin, if any surface hardening, making the actions anywhere from normal to cap gun gritty... some had huge differences in bores & chambers... some so loose, they could barely hit the side of a barn, some so tight, they blew up on the 1st cylinder of factory cartridges, back when they were new...

besides that though, it was the industrial age, so much innovation...

I have this one, still a black powder revolver, that has a trigger safety in the style of the modern semi auto...

also the reason a lot of this are in rougher shape, is they were often given to the kids to play with...

 

[DaleA]

Wow...what an ad!!!

 

[campingnights]

For OP enjoyment I thought to share a couple more ads. My great, great Grandpa was a Sheriff and used my Ivers topbreak as a duty gun. They were available quite cheap for the time.

Guess I've got a thing about Ivers Top Breaks

 

[Gunfixr]

You know, Marlin made one model of top break double action revolver.
I had one.
It was in quite nice condition, fully operational, I had fired it.

I sold it, for more than a few pennies.

 

[James K]

Yes, they did, in addition to a tip-up revolver that is basically a copy of the S&W No.2 and several spur trigger single actions. The DA topbreak was made in three variations; it looks like an S&W but the lockwork and extraction systems are different, based on Marlin's patents.

They made about 12,000 from 1887 to 1899; today they are scarce, but not especially valuable or sought after except by Marlin collectors.

Jim