Need ideas / advice for CPL license and children in home.

MurBob

New member
My wife is going to get her CPL license.. various reasons.

We live in the country, she has a job, we have a 3 year old child in the home.

We are tying to figure out what other people do with their weapons in such a situation and we're not sure what the most practical and safe solution is.

I'm thinking there's a safe involved here somewhere.... In the home? In the car?
We're not even sure what method she will use for carrying yet.

Your input is welcome. Hope I'm posting this to the right sub-forum.
 
General advice would be to keep the gun on you or lock it up in a safe.

Use common sense for what kind of safe to get but you can soften the cost by using the safe to store other valuables and papers too. Look into how fire safe the safe is too.

For your car some folk have something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/SnapSafe-XL-L...8&qid=1452466330&sr=8-2&keywords=car+gun+safe

It's not going to stop a determined thief but it's all a balancing act anyway. Security on one hand/cost-convenience on the other.

(For the home safe it might be fun to get the biggest and baddest safe you could afford and just be optimistic enough to think you'll someday have enough valuable stuff to fill it up.)
 
There is a thread a few months old that already beat this topic down (I can't link to it on my phone) but the short version from the "all guns should be locked up" crowed is to buy a safe for your home and one for the car, and lock up all guns separate from your ammo.

The descenting view is keep the guns safe (not in a safe) and teach your children how to use them at an early age.
Do what makes the most sense to you. I personally do not have a safe, and never have. 6 kids later and a granddaughter now hasn't changed that approach.
 
Safes

Please read the TFL closely.Many of the great posts will be spot-0n helping you to help you find the balance of safety your seeking.Best of luck! :D
 
Most of us who carry every single day simply do not stop carrying because we are at home. I cannot imagine the sickened feeling if I were to need my carry gun at home and it was locked up in a safe.

I am used to carrying these days as I have done it for a handful of years now. It only comes off when I am in the shower or in the bed. I'm wearing it the rest of the time.
 
Thanks for all the replies.. if there's more, keep them coming!

To address a few comments above..

It's not going to stop a determined thief but it's all a balancing act anyway. Security on one hand/cost-convenience on the other.
Having the gun stolen is a concern that is very low on my list relative to the safety of my family. My biggest issue is how to make it ultra-convenient for my wife to carry and store the weapon as needed and work that into her daily routine while simultaneously making sure such a routine never endangers curious young hands.

Please read the TFL closely
Stop launching acronyms at me! I'm not that smart!! LOL.. what is TFL ??


Most of us who carry every single day simply do not stop carrying because we are at home. I cannot imagine the sickened feeling if I were to need my carry gun at home and it was locked up in a safe.

I am used to carrying these days as I have done it for a handful of years now. It only comes off when I am in the shower or in the bed. I'm wearing it the rest of the time.

Yikes! That's some hardcore stuff. I don't think we are the type of people who feel that we always need to have deadly force within our immediate reach. Maybe partly because of where we live or something.. That said, I do keep my personal handgun (Beretta 92 - 40cal) in a Fas1 quick opening safe right next to my bed.. It used to be just in the nightstand drawer but when we had the baby, I locked it up. There's a round in the chamber and its ready to go. Both the wife and I can find it, open it, and pull it out in complete darkness in about 3 seconds.. we've practiced that... Fas1 safes are nice for those of you who don't have one. They open fast, quiet, and reliably, and the gun handle is always in the exact same position to grab it.

But to always walk around the house with it? I don't feel that need at this time.
 
When lil ones where in the house, my gun was on me (in a holster) or, in a keypad safe. Period.

As a matter of fact, when they were really small, I only carried an HK P7 off duty. If it fell out of a holster, or whatever, I knew they couldn't fire it in the few seconds it took to get it back if they "tried to help" give it back to dad.

As soon as they got old enough, we learned about gun safety but, there was never an unsecured gun. Still isn't. Even though I would trust my kids, it's entirely possible one of their drain bamaged friends might come across it.
 
TFL

MurBob,TFL.....The Firing Line,it's this (here) a forum for exchanging information and ideas.Sorry,didn't mean to confuse.
 
Don't use your car as a gun safe. Not only are you arming a car thief, you're separating yourself from your weapon while at home.

Choose one or more drawers you want to use as secure locations in the house. Bedroom, office, etc. Have a locksmith install a simple lock on each drawer, or do it yourself if you're handy. Have the locks keyed the same, and keep the key around your neck while at home.
 
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If one is going to carry, keep the gun on you at all times (not in a purse; kids like to root around in there!), or in a safe that the child can't open when the gun isn't worn. There are plenty of safes that can open quickly if that is a concern.

Also be sure that the child is instructed in the safe use of firearms eventually so that they know how not to hurt themselves or others and that it's not a toy if they get a hold of it. My siblings and I learned to shoot between age 8-10, but didn't do much regular shooting until our later teens.
 
With three small children in the house, the combination of explaining gun safety and handling to the kids (and teaching the oldest how to shoot with an airgun), and using an electronic combination safe which isn't somewhere they normally go is sufficient and I do not worry.
 
Hi MurBob,

Welcome to TFL! You'll find lots of good advice here (and some highly suspect stuff too, which is the nature of the internet). Learning to sort through the good advice and throw the rest away -- that's the fun part. :cool:

<flourishes credentials> My husband and I have five children, all boys. Our oldest son was only five years old when our youngest son was born. No twins, just the baby-a-year plan for five years in a row. So our gun storage problem was a little more intense than most need to deal with.

Our children are all now healthy and happy young adults, ranging in age from 20 to 26. To the best of my knowledge (now that their "don't tell mom!" stories are starting to come to light), they never touched one of my firearms without permission. One of the only two close calls that I'm aware of happened at a neighbor's house, and was handled appropriately because we had already role-played "what would you do if your friend wanted to show you his dad's gun?" before that happened.

The other close call was my own fault; a miscommunication with a friend who stopped over at our place after a trip to the range. He invited me and the kids out to lunch, and came inside to use the bathroom while I was grabbing my purse and locking up the house. I shoo'd our youngest three boys -- then ages 5, 6, 7 -- out to the car ahead of me. Maybe a minute and a half later, they came running back inside: "Mom, there's a gun in the back seat! We didn't touch it. Is it real? We didn't think you would have sent us out there if it was real, but we remembered you said if it wasn't real, we got to treat it like it's real so we didn't touch it. Okay, mom?" (The gun was real. It was in our buddy's open range bag, which was sitting on the floor behind the driver's seat.)

Both of those incidents, to me, really highlighted the importance of educating kids about gun safety -- and doing it before there's an issue. There are a number of articles on my webpage about this, all under the header of "Kids and Guns" from the main page.

Educating the kids is NOT enough. It's a critical layer of safety, but it's only one layer. The other essential layer is keeping guns under the conscious control of a responsible adult, or locked up where children (and criminals, and clueless people) cannot access them.

We do this because human beings are not perfect. Neither adults nor children are perfect. We need two layers to take care of the two types of non-perfect behavior we see from human beings:

  • Educating the children insures against times when adults are not perfect, and leave guns where irresponsible and untrained people can access them.
    .
  • Locking up the guns insures against times when children are not perfect, and do things they've been taught not to do, or do things in a childlishly awkward or clumsy way, or let their friends push them into things they know they shouldn't try.

Both safety layers are essential.

You will sometimes come across older people who will tell you that they raised a bunch of kids and "never had one touch a gun when they shouldn't!", so locking up the guns isn't necessary. That's a good story, but it's not worth betting your child's life on it. It's also a logical fallacy: the presumption that a single dangerous act, or even a series of dangerous acts, will always result in immediate catastrophe. (If you want to follow that thought down the rabbit hole, I'd be happy to discuss it. Or you can simply Google the phrase "normalization of deviance" and think about how it might apply to non-rigorous safety behavior around firearms.)

As for specific ways to keep your child safe at home, my own personal solution was to simply keep wearing the gun when I got home from wherever I'd been. You'll find my long-winded explanation for the reasons in this article on my site. The short version is that although my husband and I live in a beautiful, low-crime, rural area, I knew that it would take a long time for anyone to respond to the call if I did need help -- because living in a rural area generally means long response times. So I went out and got my CPR certification, learned how to stop bleeding, and decided to carry a gun as I went through my daily life.

None of these were based on the odds, but on the stakes.

From that article:

But I got thinking about it. If a rapist or murderer came slamming through my front door, would I have time to fetch a <gun>from the next room in time to save my children’s lives and protect myself? Possibly not...

Worse still, if someone did come slamming in the front door, or slithering in through a window, would I have to make the awful choice to leave my children alone in the room with him in order to grab the gun? What if he grabbed one of my kids and just … left? I shuddered at the thought!

I considered leaving the shotgun accessible to me in the living room instead of in a back room. But what if we were all in the back of the house and an intruder entered? The dilemma remained the same.

But that was my own reasoning, and need not be yours.

In any case, you'll need a safe. Small, quick-access safes cost less than $200, many of them less than $100. (See here for one example of an excellent product designed to hold a single firearm.) I would steer clear of "biometric" designs, which are not yet as reliable as their mechanical counterparts.

That's about it. Good luck and stay safe!

pax
 
Having the gun stolen is a concern that is very low on my list relative to the safety of my family. My biggest issue is how to make it ultra-convenient for my wife to carry and store the weapon as needed and work that into her daily routine while simultaneously making sure such a routine never endangers curious young hands.
I try to always carry, but on the rare occasion that I have to disarm when out and about I lock my carry gun in a lock box that is substantial. Most are very easily breached and the cables are easily cut. More of a false sense of security in my opinion. I don't think $30 buys much security.

This is what I have been playing with for a while. 11GA steel, locks to the bracket at both corners with 3/8" stainless steel pins using the key or use the 5/16" diameter cable to something solid like a seat frame.

IMG_3609.JPG


That said, I do keep my personal handgun (Beretta 92 - 40cal) in a Fas1 quick opening safe right next to my bed.. It used to be just in the nightstand drawer but when we had the baby, I locked it up. There's a round in the chamber and its ready to go. Both the wife and I can find it, open it, and pull it out in complete darkness in about 3 seconds.. we've practiced that... Fas1 safes are nice for those of you who don't have one. They open fast, quiet, and reliably, and the gun handle is always in the exact same position to grab it.

But to always walk around the house with it? I don't feel that need at this time.

THANK YOU Bob! I use the same for my HD gun. :D
When I am awake, I always pocket carry around the house. I use a P3AT. I don't notice it when doing yard work, working in the garage or whatever I am doing. Even when I have my CCW on me I usually keep the P3AT in my pocket as well as I am just use to always having it with me. I use it with a bellyband when running and don't notice it anymore. I also always have a Spyderco C07 clipped on somewhere as well. The knife goes everywhere with me except in my carry on bag when on a plane.
 
Yikes! That's some hardcore stuff. I don't think we are the type of people who feel that we always need to have deadly force within our immediate reach.
I do not (at all, in any way!) intend to speak as if I am looking down on you -- but in my own "growth" it seems to come down to what I would term "maturity in thinking."

A carry gun is, to me, very much like a spare tire in the trunk. I do not put a spare tire in the trunk for that one single trip a year when I intend to drive down that street that has the nail factory and the glass bottle factory.

Instead-- I have the spare tire in my trunk always. Furthermore, I am well aware that one street has both a a nail factory AND a glass bottle factory and I don't nod over my shoulder to my awesome spare tire and CHOOSE to race down that street! Instead... I avoid that street ALL THE TIME. And if somehow I end up taking a wrong turn and land on broken glass and scattered Nail Boulevard, well thank goodness I have a spare tire in my trunk. And for sure, I hope to carefully navigate that Boulevard and escape without ever opening my trunk!

My handgun is the same way. In other words, I would never leave it at home simply because I am going to Pastor's Picnic on Peace & Harmony Avenue. Like I would never specifically strap on my biggest handgun simply because I wanted to visit MEAN JAKE'S LATE NIGHT LIQUOR & TATTOOS and 1:45 am.

Fire extinguisher is in the house in the event of a fire. I don't take it out of the attic only when I am deep-frying chicken near the blowing curtains of the open kitchen window.

That's the role of a daily carried handgun. That is why I find a QUALITY holster and a carry gun that I can live with on my hip for all the hours of the day I am vertical and awake.

I don't wear a handgun because I expect the Hell's Angels to host a meeting in my living room at 10pm. If I thought that might happen, I would MOVE, I would have rifles and ammo handy and I would have shooting buddies over. :eek::D The handgun on my hip will NOT be accessed by a child or a child's visiting friend. -->which may be the world's biggest threat when your kids get to be teenage or near-teenage. Your kids may be complete gems (I know mine are! :D) but their friends are an unknown quantity.

My guns are locked in a 900 pound safe bolted through the floor. Except the one handgun I can use, and that is on my right hip.
 
I wouldn't over think it. If your main purpose is to keep small children out , a small safe like the one suggested kept somewhere in your bedroom would be fine.
 
to OP

this could be a good compromise and i plan to put one on each floor of my house..for me this is a "get me to my gun safe" option. Once there i will probably be shot dead by intruder deciding which of my loves will fit the job for the mood i am in or i will just grab one and go

http://shop.opticsplanet.com/gunvau...mmy5YAPQ2wXMWGRRdv3wt63rW2lrl4k4YoxoCd4Pw_wcB

If the link does not work, google "gun vault speed vault"

i plant to inset mine into the wall like a built in bookshelf speaker..
 
this could be a good compromise and i plan to put one on each floor of my house..for me this is a "get me to my gun safe" option. Once there i will probably be shot dead by intruder deciding which of my loves will fit the job for the mood i am in or i will just grab one and go

http://shop.opticsplanet.com/gunvaul...4YoxoCd4Pw_wcB

If the link does not work, google "gun vault speed vault"

i plant to inset mine into the wall like a built in bookshelf speaker..

I looked into that.. played with it, opened and closed it, etc.. I can't say its a bad unit, but compared to a Fas1 safe, I'll take the Fas1.. Only drawback is that the Fas1 is more expensive but I guess you get what you pay for.

As it turns out, I think I'm going to end up going with the ultra cheap option.. Yes, as in cheap quality, and cheap price to match... I'm thinking a sentry safe from a local store that is just big enough for her entire purse to fit into it. Might go a bit smaller for something that just fits the gun.. we're going to have to work on that.
I figure I will put the safe right in the open next to the washer and dryer where its easily accessible. Remember, my only concern is to work the safe storage routine into her current routine to keep it away from a child.. Theft is not a concern.. only child safety and convenience.

If they sold cheap, fast opening digital locks I would even consider building her a wood box for the thing.
 
I've got twin 4 & 1/2 yr olds...they have impressed me with how high they can climb...
NOTHING is "Out Of Reach" for them...they'll climb on top of a fridge for giggles...
they were on top of the China Cabinet at 16 months...frickin monkeys ;)

At 15 months they were using the "Distract and Pick" on their grandparents...
one would come up for a "Hug Me!", while the other would pick Grandpa's phone
out of his pocket...without him knowing...
took me until I was 14 to learn to dip that smoothly...LOL

So, yeah, safes. Biometrics in dang near every room.
I love the new ones that look like clocks & whatnot!
Kids learn keypads...they learn combos...they learn where keys are stored...
frankly, it is my belief they'll become rather adept at safe-cracking...
but a fingerprint reader stops 'em cold ;)
At least...until they learn the super-glue trick...which hopefully won't be until after 18.

Also training the child on what to do if they come across a firearm.
It is a layer of safety, every little thing helps.
At age 3, showed them empty semi-auto, went thru the Eddie Eagle program with 'em,
emphasized what to do if you see anything that looks like this...Do Not Touch,
Come Get Mom or Dad. And emphasized the Finger Smasher aspect...
released the slide on a pencil...SNAP! Then asked them what they would do if they found one...
to which they gave the right answer...Do Not Touch The Tool!! Go get mom/dad :)
As I have a fair amount of woodworking/metalworking tools, guns aint the only deadly objects...
so avoidance training is the starting place...and letting them know HOW it works...
and that they can learn how to use them once they get a bit older helps :)

Basically, you take the Mystery out of it...and label them as CAUTION TOOLS :)
 
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