Need Help with Williams FP peep sight

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IrvJr

New member
Hey All,

I have a Winchester 94 trapper in 44 mag that has a Williams "Fool Proof" rear peep sight installed.

I took it to the range today to do some testing with some reloads that I had made. The reloads shot well, but were slightly off point of aim. I adjusted the elevation to move the point of impact then test fired it some more. My shots were a little eratic - I thought the sight might be loose so I tightened the little screw that holds the elevation adjustment in place. I also adjusted the screw on the side of the sight (that is called the "angled locking bushing screw" on the instructions that came with the sight).

After I made the adjustment, everything seemed to hit point of aim and my shots were tight at 25 and 50 yards. The gun was shooting great, till I tried to make some more elevation adjustments when I wanted to shoot it at 100 yards.

When I tried to adjust the elevation later on, nothing would happen. I loosed both the little screw and the angled locking bushing screw, then tried turning the elevation adjustment screw. It would click and turn, but the sight would not move up or down.

I'm not sure what to do. The sight seems to be stuck and cannot be moved up or down. The windage adjustment works fine, but the elevation adjustment no longer responds.

Any ideas on what to try? did I damage the sight irreparably?

Thanks!
 
Call Williams and ask them. They are very user friendly and helpful. It's hard to tell without seeing the sight. I have used them and if I remember correctly, there is a screw that turns when you turn the knob. If the screw is turning and nothing is happening I'd guess you stripped the screw threads. Call them and see what they say.
 
the screw is probably not stripped. On the williams sighs I have, one of the screws that holds it on the rifle is under the sliding part of the sight. That part of the sight is quickly removed by pushing in on a knurled knob on the side. If your sight is like this, that knob may not be pushed in, so the lead screw is not being engaged
 
Here's a picture of my FP sight, with the elevation screws labeled. (The windage screws aren't shown)

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The screw names are my own. They may or may not match the terminology used by Williams, but I think we can proceed anyway.

The procedure to adjust elevation is to:

1. Loosen the Elevation Lock Screw.
2. Make sure the Elevation Engagement Screw is just feeling resistance. Too loose and it won't engage, and too tight binds things up.
3. Turn the Elevation Adjustment Screw to make your adjustment to elevation.
4. Tighten the Elevation Lock Screw when you are done.

It should be noted that the number of clicks doesn't always equal some convenient fraction of a MOA, as the distance to the front sight is part of the equation.

My best guess is that you have loosened the Elevation Engagement Screw too much, so that nothing happens when you turn the Elevation Adjustment Screw (or knob, it you have the version with knobs).
 

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Thanks everyone for your replies. I tried calling Williams today a few times, but couldn't get through to anyone in their tech support department.

dmazur - thanks for the wonderful diagram. i think i screwed up (no pun intended) my sight. even when i loosen the elevation lock screw, and only loosen the elevation engagement screw 1/4 turn (like the little instruction sheet suggests), the elevation adjustment screw doesn't work. I'm not sure what i did, but i think i did something bad.

i will call williams tomorrow and hopefully talk to a customer support person and see what i can do to fix it.

thanks all for your help. i'll update this thread once i've resolved the issue.
 
No offense to Williams, but the Elevation Engagement Screw is kind of fussy.

If you are gentle, you probably won't hurt anything if you try tightening (gently) the Engagement Screw until it stops. The threads are fine pitch, so I believe a couple of fingers on a small screwdriver is what we're talking about.

Then back it out to relieve the force on the threads. 1/4 turn may be too much.

If the sight moves up and down when the Elevation Adjustment Screw is turned, you have it adjusted correctly.

If it doesn't move, it is either 1) backed out too far, or 2) something is stripped.

Let's hope for 1)...
 
Thanks dmazur. I think I stripped the screw or worse, but we'll see. Hopefully I can get through to their tech support today.
 
Update

I just called Williams sight and talked to the tech support guy. He was very helpful. I described the situation and he asked a couple of questions, and then suggested I return the sight to have them look at it.

I think i buggered it up, but hopefully it can be repaired. Anyway, I am happy I got through this morning. I'll package up the sight and ship it off this weekend.
 
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Time out, fellas.

Firstly: Yes, your sight might be either out of adjustment or have the elevation adjustment screw stripped - but there might also be another (unmentioned) issue.

I'd like to first address the adjustment, THEN it's limits.

The large, vertical screw on the LH side of the sight body, labeled above as "Elevation Adj Screw" is the ONLY vertical adjustment for the receiver sight.

ALL the other screws are lock screws ONLY, and have no bearing on adjustment, except to prevent same if engaged.

The (labeled above) Elevation Lock Screw, located on the sight BASE, on the LH side of the receiver, serves only to lock the vertical elevation slide in position once the sight is zeroed - there is no need to secure it while zeroing/shooting, except to prevent loss.

Loosen it slightly & leave it be until the rifle is zeroed.

The small, horizontal screw on the rear face of the sight's horizontal sighting arm (the one with the sighting aperture atop), labeled " Elevation Engagement Screw", is no such thing - it is a lock screw that locks the elevation screw from being turned (accidently or maliciously).

Loosen it enough so that the Elevation screw turns, tighten it fully when zeroing is done.

FYI - when the elevation adjustment screw is turned, with both locking screws loose, the sight should move, unless it is limited by:

A) The bottom of the sight arm hitting the receiver top.

B) The "return to zero screw", located on the horizontal sight arm, and extending downward towards the receiver, hits the receiver top before the sight is all the way down (because the screw has been run "in" too deep.)

Either limitation will cause the elevation screw to keep turning (so it will not strip), to keep from damaging itself.

To fix:

A: Install a higher front sight/blade to raise the line-of-sight

B: Back out ("up") the return-to-zero screw, so that the sight arm can travel further downward.

DT, DT - NTS. :)


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Not arguing, but I had my FP in my hands when I wrote that explanation (and I believe the OP said something about the instructions "back it out 1/4 turn", which also implies some sort of engagement.)

Believe it or not, if you back either the elevation or windage "little screw" out too far, the adjustment screws cease functioning.

Edit: Well, it will be a few days until I'm able to get at my Winchester 1895, but I found the Williams instructions in pdf form. The "No. 1 screws" are the ones I was calling "Engagement Screws". Extract from the instructions -

CAUTION: No. 1 screws should be backed off 1/4 turn
only. This is all that is necessary to allow elevation and
windage screws to be unlocked. Turning these screws
more than one turn may disengage the elevation and
windage screws making it impossible to adjust until No.1
screws are restored to proper position. These lock screws
are precision made. It is not necessary to apply excessive
force to lock windage and elevation solid.

You are correct in that Williams calls them lock screws. However, I believe I am correct in describing them as "engagement screws", as they don't engage the adjustment screws if they are backed out too far. I'm not sure why Williams provided two elevation lock screws and only one windage lock screw, but that is a question for another day.

I tried to find the instructions when I wrote my first answer, but gave up after a few minutes and decided to just drag the FP sight out and mess with it, then describe what did what. :)

If I'd had the pdf file, I could have used Williams' terms. So I apologize for introducing misleading terms.
 
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