Need help with less obvious advantages of semi-autos

B

Blue Duck357

New member
Long story, but basically I need some help listing the advantages of semi-autos versus revolvers for concealed carry. Hard part is I'm really looking to downplay capacity and reloading speed as issues at all (like I said long story).

Any ideas much appreciated.

Thanks, Blueduck
 
How about the fact that a semi-auto is slimmer and has greater capacity and faster reloading as well. Lay an Officer Model 1911 on a table alongside a Smith & Wesson J-frame. That image speaks volumes.
 
In most case's a semi-auto will prove to be more
comfortable, for all day carry.:) :cool: :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Ooooo good... Blades hit on it with the slimmer but my amigo AlaDan nailed it for the kind of thing I'm looking for. A safety issue, in that as a semi might be more comfortable to carry all day thus more people would be likely to carry rather than leaving it at home (carry's optional).

Didn't want to get long winded in the first post as I've found that tends to limit replies but heres exactly what I'm doing: Our agency (Probation and Parole) currently only allows officers to carry only 357 revolvers. Love my model 65 but 85% of Parole agencies now issue semi-autos or at allow officers to buy thier own for carry (some even the 45 and 10mm :) ) I may or may not switch if allowed, but feel I should at least get involved with our union and trainers to allow the option to switch for those who want to.

We are not cops, when I need a policeman I go get one (or more) and unlike a police I am legally allowed to disengage a confrontation before it's settled (i.e. I can turn tail just to save my own bottom) However we do make surprise homevisits to felons homes without assitance and tend to make some rather nasty enemies when we inform a rapist or armed robber that they are being held on a unbondable parole warrant and that it's time for them to have a seat. So I think it more than prudent that we are armed.

I'm trying to stay away from the capacity/reloading issue, one because that might give Central Office the willies in regard to us going out looking for trouble as opposed to trying to avoid it or the possible "spray and pray arguement". Second I'm staying away from those issues simply because those are the reasons everyone is already throwing at them. I want to hit from a different angle.
 
PS,

C.R. I have no illusions concerning how effective a man with a good revolver can be, just trying to do my little bit to open up some options :D
 
Use the anecdotal stories of handguns with external safeties saving an officer's life when his gun has been taken away from him.
 
That pendulum swings both ways...can be countered with stories of cops or CCW holders getting killed when they forgot to flick their gun's safety off. There's plenty of anecdotal material either way.

Advantages and drawbacks are unique to each system.

Semi-auto has generally higher capacity, is usually flatter and easier to carry IWB, is faster to reload, and has more portable reloads.

On the flip side, semis are more prone to malfunction, can lose or break their magazines (detachable part of the weapon which is an integral part of the feeding mechanism), and are often ammo-sensitive in regards to bullet shapes or charge loads.

Revolvers have a higher power-to-weight ratio, are less prone to malfunction, comprise a closed weapons system with no parts to break or lose, and have no safeties to accidentally engage or disengage. They're also completely ammunition-independent as far as bullet shape or charge levels go.

On the flip side, they generally hold less rounds than an auto, don't carry as well inside the waistband, are slower to reload, and have bulky reloads. (Speed strips are flat, but not very fast...speed loaders are quick, but more difficult to lug around.)

I carry and appreciate both, but I'd prefer the revolver if I had to choose a platform. Less rounds, but more steam, and five or six for sure. My reload is a second gun anyway, and with a little practice you can reload a wheelgun mighty fast.
 
Blue Duck:

It’s a cooooold and rainy night. During a surprise home visit, it turns into a nasty situation and you decide to “disengage”. You back out and the perp decides to chase you. You have drawn your weapon, and are running across a slippery, mucky side slope and fall, slapping your weapon into the mire. You still have the weapon in hand and can hear the perp coming.

At this point, do you prefer to have a wheel gun or a semi-auto?

Shoney
 
Agree with ledslinger that it can go both ways, but great idea Blades! Can list it as safety factor, like I said just trying to open up options.

I'll have to dig for more than ancedotal stories though. Should not be too hard, might even be able to come up with something local if I check with the local PD's when I'm doing my normal work.
 
Shoney,

I would still prefer the auto, because that is what I shoot better. Some guys like Sam shoot revolvers better, more power to them. It all comes down to what you shoot best.

My 1911 can get an absurd amount of gunk in it an still work. Studies by the army showed that the 1911 worked better in the mud than the 1917 too. Mud could jam either, and mud plugging the barrel will blow both up. But mud in the internals shut down the revolver first.
 
Psychological Angle...

Thinking about the dimensions, a CCW revolver is likely to be quite a dinky looking thing, as opposed to the massive hand-cannons that "Big Revolvers" can be.

However small an semi-auto is, it has a tendency to look more lethal than a similar-length revolver, in my albeit limited experience. The whole compact, deadly thing. Also, semis look higher-tech than wheelguns, and there's a little niche in most people's phyches that will tell them that higher tech = more efficient.

Therefore, it's my half-informed wild guesstimate that drawing an auto will scare someone more than drawing a wheelgun, thereby making it more likely that producing it will have the desired effect - rather than having to discharge it.

Though I'm more than open for counter-opinion on this one, and I'm sure someone will post a phot of a truly evil-looking code-brown inducing wheelgun just to shut me up ;)

M
 
I hope no one feels helpless with a .357 revolver!

But there are a lot of considerations other than dropping the gun in the mud.

Will a standard pistol be issued or will each officer buy his/her own?

Some autos are complex; how much training will be offered?

Is uniformity of ammunition required?

Can you use hi-cap LE magazines or will you be limited to ten rounds?

Is uniformity of gun/magazine required? (If you are out of ammo and your buddy tosses you a spare mag, will it work?)

Usability standards? A shooter used to a Glock may be totally confused if he has to use his buddy's H&K.

If not uniformity, will standards be issued for power, performance or quality? (Will officers be allowed to carry a .25 Destroyer or a .32 Llama?)

Is size and weight a problem for females and small men?

How much of a factor is concealibility? Some auto pistols are pretty flat - P.38's and Rugers are not among them.

These are not necessarily related to revolver vs. auto pistol, but they should be considerations in arming any LE agency.

Jim
 
Semi-autos are generally much more ergonomic. Trying to improve the revolver with different grips makes it bulkier still, and usually raises the bore centerline even higher above the grip - exacerbating two of the revolver's built-in weaknesses.
I'm tempteed to say that anyone who "forgets" to flip off a manual safety, deserves what they get. The somewhat proprietary nature of the safety can be a real lifesaver - Where's the safety? Which way does it go for fire? Etc. The TRAINED operator will know, while a potential gun-grabber might not.
 
Wheelgun all the way. Right now I own and home smith about 6 autos and three wheels and shoot them all the time. The list of excuses an auto can come up with for not shooting staggers my mind: left the safety on, feed jam, mag not fully inserted, stovepipe, the list is endless. I have shot about 25k rounds and have only had a few misfires which were light strikes I caused because the gun is intentionally set up with lightets possible spring settings for competition shooting. And with a wheelgun, the BOOM is always just a trigger pull away. And, if you get a bad round, a good one is just a pull away. My defense gun is a SW model 10. I can't imagine ever betting my life on an auto.

As for magazine capacity, a rather bright LE once said: If I can't drop the guy with the first or second shot, I'm probably dead anyway. Magazine capacity just determines how many rounds will be left in my gun.
 
Ambidexterity should also be a consideration.

Nuther reason to NOT have fitted target grips on duty/defense weapon.

Sam
 
As for magazine capacity, a rather bright LE once said: If I can't drop the guy with the first or second shot, I'm probably dead anyway. Magazine capacity just determines how many rounds will be left in my gun.
Click to expand...

This assumes that you're facing only one hostile, which is wrong. I quote Ambler Furry: When you're up to your knees is bad guys, then you're In Combat.
 
Blue Duck,

Pick the side arm with which YOU are the most comfortable and the most accurate!

As an officially armed non-LEO, you are unlikely to be hassled if your concealed handgun occasionally “prints” (not that you should want it to), so a full-sized firearm is a real option. Further, your primary concern (I assume) is one or two felons, not a whole posse full.

Thus, you want something that will allow you to instantaneously stop two bad guys, with great reliability and certainty. Were I in your situation, I would:
1) Carry a top-quality, four-inch barrel, .357 magnum (such as a Ruger GP-100, a Smith 586, 686 627 or 27, or a Colt King Cobra or Python).
2) Use an excellent retention holster and a stout 1.5-inch belt.
3) Load with HydraShoks or Golden Sabers.
4) Practice until I could consistently --and under many conditions -- achieve 2-3 inch groups at 6-7 yards.

That should be plenty to keep you safe and the felons in bracelets, when necessary.
 
Thanks for the additional post I've got a fairly decent rough draft written up and will get some feedback tommorow.

RWK, 4 inch guns are a tad much for me concealment wise, love my 3" model 65 which is by the way loaded with 147 Grain +P+'s which I'm also a fan of. Carried this same setup in a blade-tech for several years now, walked into a lot of sitautions, maybe some I should not have (I'm not bashfull ;) ) with complete confidense.

As stated earlier I'm just looking to help out the folks who would honestly prefer the option (not requirment). Depending on what was approved I might just stay with what I got, most departments offer this option as well.

Thanks to all!
 
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