Need help with IMR 4895

T

Tatsoul

Inactive
I have some IMR 4895 i want to load in the 30 06 with 150 Gr SST.The powder is not listed in the Hornady reloading book.I searched IMR website and they give 2 completely different start and max loads for 150 gr BT and E tip.

Does anyone know where i can get information for a start and max load for 150 gr SST using IMR 4895.
Ive read to start at 47 and work up from there.Thanks for any replies.
 
I'd start at 47.0 and work up until accuracy starts to open up or I hit a published max. Whichever comes first.

I wouldn't exceed 53 grains, but some are okay with loading up until they see pressure signs and then backing off a bit. Those loads are only "safe" in that rifle, of course.
 
Listen, the Nosler E-Tip is an entirely different animal than the Ballistic Tip from Nosler, because its bearing surface is longer than that of the Ballistic tip..;)
 
I'd start at 46 grains of IMR 4895 and work up to 48 grains looking for best accuracy. Maximum is around 50 grains for a bolt action but loading the 30-06 M1 Garand maximum is around 48 grains. Between 47 and 48 grains should give good results and be safe with different LR primers in various cases.
 
The E-tips are long because they're solids, and so are less dense than the BT or the SST. Most of the charge weight difference will be due to that solid copper alloy construction being harder than a jacket that has softer lead supporting it. As a result, it requires more pressure to engrave the surface with the rifling. That pressure takes time to build, and if you used the same charge as for the BT or your SST, you'd have too much powder burning by the time the engraving was done, and the peak pressure would get too high.

In any event, your SST is like the BT and not like the E-tip, so you could use the BT load data. Personally, though, I would not do that for a different reason. I've seen a lot of rounds shoot more accurately and lower velocity in the .30-06 with that powder, and since shot placement counts more on game than sheer power, unless you are going for something really large, I would start at 46 grains and work up.

Personally, I've found IMR4064 and Varget both to be more accurate over a wider temperature range with match bullets starting from about your bullet's weight and going up. Next time you shop for powder, I would consider them. If you need extra velocity and performance, IMR 4350 is something the .30-06 seems to like pretty well.
 
Like Unclenick says, an E-Tip is a solid copper bullet. Use the BT data. It's not going to be unsafe with either though. The data is very, very close to being the same. It's just that solid copper bullets ain't the same as lead core bullets.
You do not need bullet specific data either. Load for the bullet weight.
IMR4064 absolutely gives more consistent accuracy than either 4895.
"...M1 Garand maximum is around 48 grains..." No M1 Rifles involved, but that's not true.
 
Why IMR4895? Classic powders for 30-06 are in the 4350 line, either H or IMR. IMR4895 works in the M1 for the lower pressure it produces and replicates ball ammo. The bolt rifle can handle the higher pressure. Most '06, /270, .280 loads go from 54 to 58 grs. with 4350 powders.
I run IMR4895 in my M1 and H4350 in my Winchester M70 and Mauser 98 in .280 Remington.
I have run the 47grs with various 150's and IMR4895 through my M70. I don't chrony my loads but it seemed consistent enough for hunting with.
54 grs of H4350 in my .280 produced consistent groups of about 1.250.
 
T.J.,

In this case, it was about a 4% difference in powder charge for the two bullet types, or about 2 grains at Hodgdon's site.


I'll echo T.J.'s comment on the Garand pressure limits. They are largely based on the intuitive, but wrong supposition that gas cylinder pressure goes up directly with peak chamber pressure, so that loading a charge higher will automatically run the op-rod harder. But that is only so up to the middle load range, after which the opposite happens. That is because the velocity of the bullet, which determines how long the gas port is exposed to muzzle pressure, starts to grow faster than the muzzle pressure does with each additional grain of powder. The irony is that the mild 46-48 grain loads of 4895 that a lot of Garand shooters use with 168-175 grain bullets is actually the load range where the op-rod is run hardest by that bullet weight.

IMR%204895%20Gas%20Port%20Impulse%20Bore%20side_zpszszjoper.jpg


Same plots but with zero included so you can better see the difference doesn't actually amount to a hill of beans.

IMR%204895%20GP%20Impulse%20expanded%20scale_zpsh0ctpurc.jpg
 
Last edited:
T.Oheir, Nosler puts this little piece of paper in the box with ETips warning the loadervto start low and work up because of pressure, if the op loaded it like his favorite 150 Btip load, it would likely be hot...Pick yourself up a box and read the enclosed warning.
 
I got it for my 308 and seen on other sites where people were using it just not stating startingloads.i ended up liking the n140 better for the 308 with 150 accubonds and have a whole container of 4895 sitting there
 
"I only have IMR4895" would make the question a little clearer to me. Don't most reloaders have at least 2 powders?
 
If one compares the military (Garand) and SAAMI (commercial) standard peak pressures for the .30-06, they'll see both are 50,000 CUP. As are proof loads for both at about 67,000 CUP. Too bad most sources listed them as PSI values confusing millions.

SAAMI normal pressure with transducers is 60,000 PSI. I don't think the military specified any transducer pressures but they would probably be the same.

It's the popular use of 4350 and 4831 powders in reloading ammo for 30-06 bolt guns because they produce higher muzzle velocities for popular bullet weights at normal peak pressures. Didn't matter that 4895 and 4064 powders shot those bullets more accurate. Highest velocity was/is the top priority.
 
Last edited:
The military has transducer specs now for about everything, I think. Maybe not .30-06, but I don't know. They don't roll a lot of that these days. SCATP 7.62 and SCATP 5.56 covers measuring 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO using conformal transducers same as are specified in the SAAMI standards. I think this is probably partly because contractors who make some of the military's ammo, like Federal, just to name one, use SAAMI standard gear. So, in order to be on the same page, they adopted the same kind of gear and wrote their test protocols to match it.
 
You guys are real helpful and awesome.i had a helpful PM also.
I loaded from 46 to 50 and went out to shoot 100 yards.First rounds of 46 did pretty good but somehow i got sidetracked and grabbed the 50 for the next round instead of working up.It was pretty good recoil but no pressure signs so i shot out the 50's.Group wasnt good at all so i went back down and worked up.Right at 47.5 was the ticket.Im sure i could tweak it out more between 47 and 48 but for a deer gun this was really good.Also i could never get a 150 gr to fly out of this gun with factory ammo so this was a big plus.Thank you all for the help.
20150407_150324_zpsibcit7ud.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top