Need help with a S&W double action revolver

D

Doc Hoy

New member
Bought a Model 10-5 in .38 Special at the gunshow in Hampton today.

On the right side of the frame it is marked,

MADE IN USA
MARCAS REGISTRADAS
SMITH & WESSON
SPRINGFIELD, MASS

Serial Number on the frame is C689XXX

Right side of the barrel is marked,

38 S.&W. SPECIAL CTG.

Pistol is in good shape.

Can anyone tell me approximate date of manuf. and the significance of the spanish language marking on the frame?

Tnx,

Doc
 
All I can tell you is that S&W put Marcas Registradas on them after WWII to try to cut down on the number of Spanish copies.
 
10-5 revolvers were introduced in 1962 and involved changing the front sight width on tappered barrel models. Your ser# dates from 1963-64.
 
For many years S&W fought a tide of counterfeit and copycat handguns that looked like S&Ws, and in some cases were sold as S&Ws in both the US and central and south America.

After World War I Spanish (but some Belgian) gunmakers began producing knockoff copies as a means of staying afloat. Some were very well made, others looked good but were very poorly made out of inferior materials.

S&W sued a number of the importers and won judgements against them, shutting down the fraud pipeline in the US, and adopted the Marcas Registradas marking for guns sold in Spanish speaking countries.
 
Thanks, Mike....

I have in my accumulation some of the examples of Belgian copies.

They are of fairly good quality. One is a close approximation of an 1877 Colt but clearly marked as belgian manufacture. (FAUL I think) Appears to be no attempt to fool anyone.

I think I understand correctly that the Belgian Bulldog issue is a bit different. I am speaking of the Constabulary revolvers made for the British and Irish police in (I think excusively) Belgium. I have four of these revolvers and I like them. My point here is that these Bulldogs have a stronger claim to authenticity and originality than, for example, the "Cowboy Ranger" (1877 Colt clone) in .38.
 
The Beligans copied a number of Colt & S&W handguns, but they were generally of much better quality than the Spanish copies.

The Belgians also didn't generally flog them world wide and in massive numbers, or as authentic S&W revolvers.

Apparently S&W had problems with people contacting them about the poor quality of their guns not knowing that it was actually a fake.

Oddly enough, almost all of the Spanish copies weren't true copies of the S&W Hand Ejector. Externally they were hard to distinquish, but internally they had a lot more in common with Colt lockwork, or even Chamelot-Delvigne, than S&W.

The Bulldog is a different issue entirely... I THINK that Webley was the first manufacturer to use the term Bulldog in the context of a small, large-bore revolver; copies came later by the Belgians/French/Spanish and even H&R and other companies in America.

True Webley Bulldogs are always .44 caliber or larger; the smaller calibers were never marked Bulldogs.



"I am speaking of the Constabulary revolvers made for the British and Irish police in (I think excusively) Belgium."

The Webley Royal Irish Constabulary revolver was adopted by that force (in .442 Adams) in 1868. With a cutdown grip and shortened barrel it formed the basis for the Webley Bulldog. Webley was definitely first on both accounts. As far as I know, the first Belgian Bulldog copies date from 1870.

As for authenticity and whatnot, I'm not sure how a copy of an original of any stripe can claim to be authentic....
 
I stand...(Actually sit) corrected

I thought that there was a conscious decision to go to Belgium for service revolvers for RIC as essentially an alternate source for the revolvers. This would have meant that the arrangement was somewhat similar to Colt going to FAUL with a license to manufacture the 1860 Army.

Any idea how many RIC or other British police forces used exclusively Webley Bulldog revolvers?

Were Belgian manufactured revolvers used by these law enforcement groups?
 
"Any idea how many RIC or other British police forces used exclusively Webley Bulldog revolvers?"

As far as I know, none.

The RIC and the Bulldog are related, but they had different purposes.

The RIC revolver was adopted by the RIC and also sold commercially (I think).

The Bulldog was, from what I understand, a variant of the RIC intended primarily for civilian sales.

Think of it this way...

The RIC revolver is to the S&W square butt Model 10 4" as the Webley Bulldog is to the round butt Model 10 2".

As far as I know, RIC firearms were always British provided/made. There was also a unique Lee Enfield issued to the RIC. More information on that here: http://irishgenealogyqueries.yuku.com/topic/908/The-Lee-Enfield-RIC-Carbine
 
S&W took an interesting step to combat import of those cheap Spanish revolvers - they trademarked the color case hardening of their hammers and triggers. (Patents expire - trademarks, as long as they are defended, do not.)

Now the importers of the imitation S&W's were over a barrel. If they continued to have those parts in the Spanish guns colored, the guns would be seized by customs for trademark violation; if the parts weren't colored, the guns wouldn't look like S&W's.

S&W still wants to protect that trademark, which is why they continue to color the MIM hammers and triggers of their revolvers.

Jim
 
Most ingenious....

I have a couple different S&Ws which are 50 to 100 years old. One commonality is the very high quality of the workings of the pistol. In spite of their age they function like new or nearly so.
 
A lot of folks would say 50 and 100 year old S&W's work better than new ones. One thing that has been of interest to me is how they managed to make so many changes (and most have been improvements) without changing the basic shape and feel of the guns. Not until they put on the lock (OK, no rants needed) did they make any change to the outline of the frames.

Jim
 
My oldest S&W is very close to 100 years old. I still shoot it occasionally. Some years ago the mainspring simply snapped.

I'll take an old S&W over a new one every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
I have fired several Model No. 1 and 1 1/2 S&W revolvers as well as assorted SA and breaktop DA revolvers, and a lot of old S&W HE revolvers in .32 and .38. The only disabling failure I have had was in a brand new Chiefs Special (pre-Model 36) which broke its hammer stud after only a few shots. I replaced the stud myself, but later traded off the gun on a 3" square butt Model 36 that I still own. AFAIK, the old gun is still going.

Jim
 
I had the same problem with a new Chiefs Special, less than a box of shells and the hammer stud broke!. had it repaired ( under warrantee ) a then a few rounds later the trigger stud broke. Didn't turn me off on S&W but really made me wonder, since then I've heard several reports of the same problems with the M-36. :confused:
 
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