Need help of misfires

C

cdoc42

New member
I have a 38-year old Remington Model 700 in .270 in which I installed a Timney trigger. I noticed the distance to the lands increased so Remington checked it out and put a new barrel on it. I attempted to fire it and the primers wouldn't fire. There was a dent, but no ignition. The only time this happened was shortly after I bought it and the problem was the firing pin was gunked up with WD-40. Carb cleaner took care of that and it has never misfired since.

So, I contacted Remington, they wanted it back again, checked it out and found no problem: The "headspace and firing pin protrusion is okay." "..firing pin indent on the dummy round ok." "Unable to duplicate as received, could be an ammo problem?"

I got it back and primed a new Remington case. It fired. I pulled the bullets and powder from the misfires and tried all those - they all fired!! Hum.....did they fix it and not tell me due to liability concerns? So I reloaded everything and went to range today. First shot: "click." Same nonsense. But 7 of 15 rounds DID fire! Once I simply lifted the bolt twice and the round fired when I tried again. Next time I tried that, "click." Some shots went off the first try. The very next cartridge, "click."

I felt some creep in the Timney trigger but the shots that fired had creep, too.

I'll have to contact Remington again, but does anyone out there have any thoughts on this?
 
Could just be a bad batch of primers if they said the firing pin protrusion is ok and the headspace is ok. Did you send them the entire rifle? If you did and they said it checked out, then I would suggest you check the cases with factory rounds because you could be setting the shoulder back too far or you jyst have some bad primers. I would check your cases with a headspace guage because you may be setting the shoulder back too far and you will never be able to tell by using your eye most of the time.
 
It is just about impossible to have the cases seat too deep with a Remington 700 if the extractor engages.

An easy test is to insert the base of the round into the bolt, making sure the rim is under the extractor. The ejector will try to push it out, but you can carefully guide it into the chamber. Do this enough times to make sure it fires (or doesn't). If it fires every time, then you can think about case length. If it doesn't, then the problem could be old primers or something else.

Also check the cases for any sign of stretching, like a bright ring around the case about 1/4" from the base; a case short enough that the rim will not snap under the extractor should show signs of what is called cartridge headspace.

Jim
 
Thanks for your replies and help.

1289, If the case seats too far into the chamber, wouldn't the case be unable to be extracted, as suggested by Jim? All cases extract without incident. Re: setting the shoulders back, I set my die using a Stoney Point tool (similar to the comparator) so that the shoulder is set back no more than 0.002 - 0.003" and thus the cases only fit my rifle.

This is really getting frustrating. I pulled the bullets and powder from three misfired cases tonight. Two of the cases were brand new, previously unfired Remington cases. One was previously fired, resized, etc.

I chambered them and all three fired. When I was at the range, multiple attempts to fire these failed. It appears the rifle works without fault when no powder or bullets are in the case. Then just for the hell of it I poured carb cleaner into the bolt but nothing came out except carb cleaner. I dried the bolt and lubed with Kroil.

The next move will be to pull the remaining misfires and try to fire the primers. If they all fire, I have no idea what is going on.

A friend told me he had a rifle once wherein the firing pin was broken and the rifle fired only when the pin properly aligned its fractured parts. At first that might make sense, but further thinking makes me wonder. If the pin doesn't align, it would actually be longer, not shorter, would it not? Perhaps the tip of the fractured pin might cock to one side if not aligned and thus be less effective but I can't imagine there's enough room in there for the pin to shift that much.

Any other thoughts would be welcomed.
 
"Also check the cases for any sign of stretching, like a bright ring around the case about 1/4" from the base; a case short enough that the rim will not snap under the extractor should show signs of what is called cartridge headspace."

Jim, would the cases extract in this circumstance? I'm not quite clear on this concept. If the case stretches how does it get shorter? Is the ring you describe the same as incipient case separation due to thinning of the web?
 
cdoc42, does your trigger have an overtravel screw? Because it sounds like the same problem I had on one of my guns. The overtravel screw if not adjusted properly can cause misfires and a creepy trigger. On mine, all I had to do was back the screw out a little more.

Have you checked the firing pin and spring?
 
If the case is sitting right on the edge of the extractor, it will back up enough when it fires for the extractor to engage, and that could cause the same signs as excess headspace. Of course the case would be longer, not shorter. Even if it doesn't fire, the little jolt from the firing pin falling could jar things enough for the extractor to engage. I think the idea is a bit far fetched, though.

I am about out of ideas. One more question for cdoc42. What do the unfired primers look like? Is there a heavy dent or just a slight mark?

I am thinking that you might not be seating the primers deep enough. Some reloaders are concerned about being too hard on the primers, and seat them very gently, so the anvil is not fully down in the primer pocket. If that happens, the firing pin just drives the primer in but doesn't fire it. Almost always, the primer, now fully seated, will fire the second time.

Jim
 
WSM, I'll have to look; it's been a long time since I installed the Timney trigger. I do know when I installed it it was trickey to adjust. Just a slight adjustment in the wrong direction would find the trigger firing if the bolt was closed, rifle was jarred, etc. Finally I got it at 3.5lb and no matter what I did it would not fire unexpectedly. Re: the firing pin, I assume Remington checked this all out.

Jim, interestingly enough, I emailed CCI with the same question posted here and their response was the primers may not have been seated deep enough. I have to say I've never had this problem but I loaded 10 more tonight and if I get time tomorrow I'll try again. New cases with Federal primers this time. CCI suggested I seat the primers .003 to .005" deep but since I've never done it I have no idea how to make that measurement.

I really thank you guys for your interest and help.
 
Just seat the primers "firmly" and you should have no problem. The anvil needs to rest solidly on the bottom of the primer pocket. Don't worry about where the top of the primer is in relation to the base of the case as long as it is not high. A little below is fine if that is where the primer end up.

If you are using a regular loading tool, give the lever a good push or pull. I don't like those hand priming tools as they often give variations in seating pressure depending on how tired the hand is, and some just don't seat properly at all.

I have not mentioned the Timney since I really don't see how the trigger could cause failure to fire unless it is somehow interfering with the firing pin and I think you would have seen that.

Jim
 
700 n-fire

Dear Sir:
I may be assuming too much but if Remington checked the rifle it's O!K!

What does this rifle do with factory ammo?
If it fires AOK! it's improper loading practise.
Harry B.
 
I loaded 10 rounds with Federal 215 rather than CCI 250 primers, in new cases, made sure I seated with some force and all rounds fired. So it looks like, at least, the seating may have been the factor. Maybe. I'll need to repeat this with the CCI primers to see if they fire. If the seating is the problem, it's a first for me in 30 years of reloading.

Can't say that I was disappointed, either. I used 150gr Hornady round nose in the .270 and got a 3-round, 100 yard 0.5" group.

Thanks to all for letting me tax your cerebral function.
 
primers

Dear Sir:
In adjustng my primer seating depth there is no such thing! Use a priming set-up which is capable of "overseating" a primer - any primer!
Develop a feel in primer seating which lets you "feel" it bottoming in the primer seat! We like to slightly stresses the mixture on the anvil, in the case recess. I've done this for 50 years and never had this happen to me.
Devices that seat to a uniform depth are junk! You seat primers by feel, not with a guage. Develop that feel and you'll never go wrong!
Harry B.
 
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