Need help developing .38 spl load for 158 gr LSWC

D

DMY

New member
I am relatively new to TFL and have learned a LOT from many of you in a very short amount of time. I recently started reloading again after a 10-year hiatus.

In my years, I have never found or developed an accurate load for 158 gr LSWC bullets in my .38/.357. I have bought a few new factory loaded bullets and have tried a couple of different reloads, but they don't group well. I have had a lot of success with Speer 148 gr HBWC ahead of 3.0 grs of Bullseye and 125 gr XTP, JSP, JHP, JFP or coated TC from Hornady, Sierra and Berry's ahead of 4.0 or 4.5 grs of Bullseye. While I have not tried that many different types of bullets, I have always had success using Hornady bullets, and more recently, Berry's, in my .38/.357 and .45, so I don't necessarily think it is the bullet manufacturer. I primarily use Bullseye because I shoot relatively light loads out of my 3" Python, although I did reload with some 231 and Unique a long time ago. I can usually get 6-shot groups around 1" - 1.25" at 35' from HBWCs, but the LSWCs won't do better than 2.5" - 3.5" at 35'. I shoot at 35' because that is the maximum distance where my eyes have a clear focus on the front sight and target. I'm sure the good and not-so-good groups are somewhat limited by my skills, or lack thereof. During my most recent reloading, I really tried to be consistent with the powder dropping and bullet seating using a single-staged RCBS Rock Chucker and RCBS Lil Dandy powder dropper.

Any suggestions to develop an accurate load with 158 gr LSWCs?
 
Speer 148 gr HBWC's are match .38 Special bullets. 3.0 is a tick much for 'em. Not unsafe in any way. Just that those run better with 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye. Has since you and I were unheard of too.
LSWC's are different things. Suspect your 3" Python(apparently of a "limited factory production". May be too valuable to be shooting.)might just not like 'em with Bullseye.
You loading .38 or .357? Bullet maker is irrelevant. Only thing that matters now, just like 10 years ago is the weight. And jacketed or cast.
"...and target..." Only the front sight matters.
4.0 grs of Bullseye is below minimum for a cast 158 in a .357. 4.8 is max.
 
You will get the best accurracy when you find the right LSWC bullet as they vary GREATLY from one brand to another. Personally I have never gotten great accurracy from name brand lead bullets, I believe because they are too soft. I get super accuracy from good cast bullets, using Missouri Bullet Co. as my current source. I'm using the BRN 18 as I also use them in .357 magnum, but the BRN12 for cowboy loads will probably do even better for you for your application.
 
I shoot a lot of 38 Special target ammo. About 800 rounds/month; maybe more. I shoot mostly 148gn LDEWC's, and 158gn LSWC's - and their plated counterparts.

It has been my experience that bullet selection has far more to do with accuracy than any other factor (propellant, charge weight, primer, case, etc.). It's all about the bullet.

Missouri Bullet Co has excellent products. For 38 Special, I get the "PPC#2" Lead DEWC (a soft cast, hardness 12); and the "38 Match" lead SWC (a soft cast, hardness 12). Most cast bullet manufacturers offer only hard cast (hardness 18 or so) bullets. It has been my experience that for 38 Special (and 45 ACP, but that's another post) target level shooters, the soft cast deliver the best performance. They go right where I point them - every single time.

As far as charge weight, I don't think it's that critical. I run the lead DEWC's at 2.8gn Bullseye, and the SWC's at 3.4gn Bullseye, just for the record. But to reiterate, the charge weight doesn't matter. I've ran both these bullets in 0.1gn increments (and sometimes even 0.05gn) all up n down on each side of the above-mentioned charge weights; and all of them are accurate. My settled upon charge weights are only due to finding the needed velocity for Power Factor for my shooting competition disciplines.

Other companies make good slugs too (S&S Casting and Penn come to mind). I go mostly with MoBuCo because of their "hardness optimized" choice.
 
Before I started casting my own bullets I had a lot of luck with Dardas bullets. I know there are a lot of fine bullet companies out there but I have only tried one or two.

As far as load developing goes my advice is to be methodical, take notes, don't load too many of one recipe until you verify performance, check the bore frequently and clean between loads if necessary, ladder test powder loads in .2 gr increments and quit shooting when fatigue sets in. It is not uncommon for your performance to deteriorate after as little as 50 rounds so be honest with your self.

And lastly, enjoy yourself and keep a positive attitude. Don't get discouraged and don't beat yourself up. Tell yourself that any day at the range is a good day.
 
You might slugging or having slugged your cylinder and barrel. I've only read the first page, but so far, nobody has mentioned bullet diameter as being a factor.
 
nobody has mentioned bullet diameter as being a factor.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true.

That would be the "bullet selection" part of my post. Although I didn't specifically mention diameter, so I stand amiss.

.358 will probably suffice for 90% of the barrels out there - and is probably 90+% of the lead bullets (for 38/357) for sale. There are some suppliers out on the interweb which I doubt are accurately sizing their bullets. But MoBuCo are correct at .358. I know this not because I've measured them (calipers won't do it - you need a V-Anvil micrometer to +/-.0001), but because they shoot straight.

Penn and Dardas offer different sizing. I've had good luck with .359 too. .357 doesn't shoot straight in any of my 38/357 guns.
 
I agree, if you are finding difficulty find accurate bullets, slugging your barrel is the first thing. the other is just the weight, you said you can't find a good factory 158 or handload 158 that groups well, but other weights group just fine?? if so, maybe your particular pistol has an odd twist or lacking the velocity to fly the 158 straight. what does shoot well? you said the 148's do, do even lighter weights also shoot well? if it's just the 158's that don't, I think it may be the distance your shooting at a low velocity and possibly not staying stable, I don't see why others would shoot great if your bore was oversize. also, if the 148's are accurate, why change to the 158? what's another 10gr
 
I'm not sure whether you want to develop a low-end .38 Spl. load, a .38 Spl. +P load, or a magnum-level load. For any of these, I cannot imagine how achieving the desired velocity with a small charge of fast-burning powder vs. obtaining it with a larger charge of slower-burning would affect accuracy, but it just might.

Have you tried loading with a medium-burning powder like Unique to get obtain your desired velocity? Another thing to check is the individual variation in weights among the 158(-ish)grain projectiles. Group them by weight when they vary by 0.2 grains, and try loading them accordingly. This may not be ALL of the problem but it could be SOME of it. If all bullets weighed fall into the 157.8gr. - 158.2gr. range, I doubt that non-uniformity of projectile weight is the issue, but I'll be surprised if you don't have a sizable number of bullet weights falling above and below that range.

Lastly, the human eye cannot focus on the sights of a pistol and its target simultaneously. Concentrate on the front sight, and let the target be a blur.
This can be difficult to do at first, but it gets easier with more sessions at the shooting range.
 
Cast Bullet Handbook lists 4.0 gr W231 (the max) as best rated load on their list of powders for the 158 gr Linotype LSWC. I have been shooting 5.0 gr of SR4756 and am not at all getting the accuracy I get from my magnum guns. I will try the max of 5.5 (SR4656) and then move on to W231, which I have. I don't think a bullet this large in a 38 Special was meant for soft loads. I am a magnum shooter and, for my larger frame guns, tend to load +p or the high end of 38 Special in general. Smaller bullets seem to do well in softer target loads. I have stocked 125 gr Missouri coated TCFP for that, formerly Zero LTCFP.
 
As mentioned before; bullet fit is one of the most important factors in good accuracy. For a starting point, I would use a medium hardness bullet, mebbe 14-15 BHN, flat based, sized (or purchased) the same diameter as the cylinder throats. I did not find one specific bullet manufacturer notably better than the rest, but chose one that sold bullets of different diameters per caliber. I cast my own now and only occasionally purchase cast bullets when I don't have a particular mold for a bullet I wanna try. I have always had excellent results with all bullets purchased from Beartooth Bullets...
 
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