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FUD

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I just learned that I'll be attending a "family function" and one of the invited guests will be an anti who has a Ph.D. in logic, of all things (not really sure what type of job this qualifies him for). I'm not usually very good with argueing gun rights with these type of people because they frequently are able to twist my own facts & figures (that I can throw at them) around. Any suggestions on how to keep by being KO'ed will be appreciated.
Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif


[This message has been edited by FUD (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dZ:
print out a few copies of this: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/gunfacts.pdf dZ[/quote]

Even better than dz's suggestion. If you want more credibility, I would not bring this doc with you. However, I would read it thoroughly and memorize a good bit of it. What I have found is, you pull less weight when you have to refer to something. ESPECIALLY so whenever the anti-gunner gets a good look at it and discredits it because the person writing it has an "agenda." Remember, the story works both ways you know.

Memorize what you think will be important to your arguement, and use it. In all actuality, you have little to worry about. In the end, all gun-control is based soley on emotions.



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God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!
 
Unless the person's doctorate is honorary, the odds are that they have spent a disproportionable percentage of their life in the world of academia and have little concept of life in the real world of planet earth. Even tho it looks like a human life form, you should bear in mind that you are having a discussion with an alien life form.

Kinda like trying to reason with the alligator who wanted to eat your kid.

Good luck Sir.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Taser.

One blast and you're professor-free for the rest of the evening...

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
If they have a Ph. D in logic they have probably also studied philosophy, ethics and morality and religion more than a little. Unless it is computer logic?

Depending on what he specializes in he might work on ethics boards for hospitals or medical research groups, teach, or he might be involved with theology. Most likely he teaches for a living and dabbles in some other applications. I would be curious to know. Logic & philosophy teach you how to debate/argue/think in a structured fashion. Or to counter other peoples ideas/arguements/speeches.

With that background he will be more than able to identify fact from fiction but most likely if he is a true rabid anti then it is either due to ignorance [ie no information beyond media and gossip] or he has a negitive experiance related to guns [suicide of family/friend, been shot or shot at, etc].

If it is ignorance then he will probably come around. If it is the other then he will use his skills to avoid discussing the facts.

I wouldn't spend much time arguing with someone with a advanced degree in logic. Better off just giving him a copy of the best arguements you can find and ask him to give his professional opinion of the arguements.

[This message has been edited by Glamdring (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
I'd say ignore him. :)

Talk guns with more receptive persons...usually an anti will keep out of it if there are several who are having a good time 'talking guns...'

If he butts in look at him with a very blaise expression and say something like:

"I'm sorry, I wasn't talking to you..."

or:

"Why are you interrupting us? No one said "Hey, get me a beer." So why are you speaking? Sit still so my brew don't fall off yer flat head."[/i]

Works for me. :D

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Satanta, the Whitebear
Sat's Realm: http://SatantasRealm.tripod.com/Entrypage/entrypage.html

My Disability petition: http://www.PetitionOnline.com/DisbHelp/petition.html
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glamdring:

........he has a negitive experiance related to guns [suicide of family/friend, been shot or shot at, etc]......[/quote]


I have a few "Negative" experiences with uses of guns. I have been shot at, someone I know killed themselves with a gun, none of those events changed the way I felt about guns. If it did anything it made the way I feel stronger about guns. There is NO need to restrict the ownership of guns by people who will use them lawfully. There is only a need to restrict the people who would them to commit violent crimes.


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Dead [Black Ops]
 
It's a family function. Drink a beer, eat some grub, play with the kids. Mellow out.

If the dude wants to argue with you - say - That's nice and move one. Let him rave.

Politics at family functions are a waste of time. He's not to convince you, nor you him.

Chill.
 
Tell him to read John Lott's book "More Guns. Less Crime."
As A Phd he should be able to understand Lott's superb statistical analysis. You should also tell him that Lott started his research sure that it would prove that gun control worked and reduced crime only to find out that it didn't.
 
Feel him out for what kind of anti he his. Is he anti-gun or or for gun restrictions.

I see the biggest potential hole in his "logic" being that he will make arguments "in a vacuum." If guns are truly eliminated that at least some homocides will be prevented. That's true. He may then argue that any step in that direction is a good one. Guns will never be truly eliminated. Murderers can be ingeneous. Drug and alchohol prohibition failed too, etc, etc.

Logic simply means that one can follow from point A to point B. Computers are very logical, but when filled with the wrong information can make big mistakes.
 
Chances are that you'll do better by letting it go and enjoying your family function.

You can present all of the facts and figures that you want, but these facts and figures won't sway the anti-rights bunch. Don't waste your breath. Save it for a more receptive bunch.

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NRA Life Member
Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners(MCRGO)
 
Most PhDs I have known (considerable number in a variety of disciplines) were basically research slaves for their major professor for 3+years. During that time, the PhD candidate did most of the work (research) and the tenured professor got the credit.

With all this said, almost ALL PhD candidates have performed an inordinate amount of scholarly research and statistical analysis (as Hardball accurately stated). Their one BIG goal in life is to be published in a peer-reviewed journal. Proper research and analysis are ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to such an effort. Therefore, he should be amenable to the research of Lott and others.

Now, I would do two things: First, I would present your argument using documented facts that are beyond criticism. If that doesn't work, tell him you have to go now because "Grandpa always said I should never argue with a fool, listeners can't tell which is which!" :p

SG

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The real democratic American idea is, not that everyman shall be on a level with every other, but that every one shall have liberty, without hindrance, to be what God made him . . . H.W. Beecher

[This message has been edited by SG12 (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
Fud,

Here's an idea. Using the Internet, review local newspapers from the PhD's home area for the last three or four months. Select articles that highlight violent crimes against innocent citizens. Then -- when the PhD begins to preach -- point out the neither the police nor the victims were able to provide adequate protection these people (and their families). However, had they been RESPONSIBLE, TRAINED, and ARMED there is a reasonable chance these tragedies would have been avoided -- not to mention, the felons might well be precluded from additional crimes (hospitalized and imprisoned or dead).

Regards.
 
PhD in logic? :confused:

That had got to take the cake!!! :rolleyes:

PhD - Sh!t Piled Higher and Deeper ;) (Get you hip waders on!) :D :D :D


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Remember, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you!

[This message has been edited by Cougar (edited August 07, 2000).]
 
If the guy tries to start a debate with you then ask him which would be more effective in protecting his family if a criminal broke into his home- quoting statistics and offering coffee while waiting for the police to arrive or shooting him? Tell him that each of you as the right to make his own choice and you have already made yours. Then ignore him. :p
I remember someone here saying something like:never argue with a moron. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I think that applies in this case. ;)

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[This message has been edited by Apple a Day (edited August 08, 2000).]
 
If you absolutely can't resist picking the scab by arguing with someone when you know you shouldn't (I know the feeling :D ) then don't try to debate him on a national scale. Make it about you personally, and ask him what he would prefer you had used on the alligator that tried to eat your baby, or what you should have had in your pocket when that guy went crazy at the filling station, for example. He'll come up with all the usual alternatives but you can debunk them and you'll stay on solid ground by speaking from personal experience, which nullifies his advantages in logic.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikul:

If guns are truly eliminated that at least some homocides will be prevented.
[/quote]

When he uses this arguement tell him, And IF my aunt had testicles she would be my uncle! ;)

David

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If your looking to government for the solution, you obviously don't understand the problem.
 
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