Need Advice!

[Nightcrawler]

I'll be coming into some money on October 1st. Due to the current political climate, buying my .308 battle rifle has taken priority over saving for a new car. I like the Remington 7400 I bought last week, but I still want a 20-round-magazines-military-style battle rifle, yet I cannot decide what I should buy! I can get a good deal on the DS Arms Authentic Austrian FAL, and it has cheap magazines. I love the Springfield M14, and it has, IMHO, by far the best sights, but mags are expensive since apparently, none of the aftermarket ones, even the ones that are "guaranteed to fit and feed" work worth crap. I like the Robinson Armament VEPR II .308, and it'd be "different", but I'd have to have it converted to take other magazines, and that'd tack another hundred dollars onto its price (Krebs Custom does it for one hundred dollars). Then I have Randy Rock, a gunsmith from Independence Arms telling me he can build me a custom HK91 (that he stands behind with a repair policy) for less than eight hundred, but I am completely unfamilliar with the HK roller-locking rifles.

Also, should I sell or trade in my Remington 7400, that I bought used for $399, to help pay for my battle rifle, or should I keep it and deck it out with a scope and bipod?

Help!

 

[Nightcrawler]

Pros and Cons

Springfield M1A (M14)

PROS: Excellent sights, beautiful, historical rifle, very accurate, can be fed from stripper clips.

CONS: Complicated to field strip (so I hear), aftermarket mags are junk (so I hear), long overall length (not that important, I guess).


Robinson Armament VEPR II .308

PROS: Least expensive, at $600 MSRP. AK reliability, it's unique.

CONS: I'd have to get it converted to M14 magazines (another hundred dollars from Kreb's Custom). I don't like the sights.


DS Arms Authentic Austrian FAL

PROS: Cheap magazines, reliable action, lots of accessories, my choice of either 21" rifle or 18" carbine, comes with hard case and bipod.

CONS: The pistol grip angle doesn't quite agree with my hand, the peep sight is itty bitty, to my eye, too small.


Independence Arms HK91

PROS: It'd be different, as few people have HK 91s anymore, and built just for me. Magazines are reasonably priced, and I understand the HK roller-locking mechanism, not being gas operated, is quite reliable.

CONS: I am completely unfamilliar with the HK roller-locking family of firearms.

Other options?

What else is there? There's the AR-10, which has great ergonomics, great sights, and with my military background, I am intimately familliar with the maintenance procedures of the M16 line, but it's extremely expensive, and magazines for it are even more so. I don't like the direct gas system, either. I didn't like it in an $800 Bushmaster and I doubt I'll like it in a $1400 AR-10.

Aside from that, I don't see what else is even on the market.

 

[Michael]

Nightcrawler,

If you need other folks to tell you which rifle to buy, frankly you need none of the above.

Questions to ask yourself;

Which of these have you fired?

Which of these are you capable of firing proficiently?

Of which of these do you have the most maintenance knowledge?

Which of these have you received training with regard to proper employment, failure to fire/stoppage drills, etc?



Other questions, since inquiring minds want to know;

Are you really expecting an invasion? Won't happen.

You and I may well perish from any number of terrorist activities, but a gun battle in the street with extremists will not be among those.

You have more chance of being the victim of a nut case white guy shooting at a Mosque than from terrorist bullets.

No flame, just trying to get some folks to think in a sane and rational manner.

Give blood, give money, pray. THINK.

 

[Nightcrawler]

huh?

What? By "political climate", I meant that they're trying to ban these rifles, and ban the importation of magazines. I live in the middle of the boondocks, there'll be no riots here. I'm not worrying about something as silly as that.

I'm just trying to get opinions before dropping down a thousand bucks. I've not fired ANY of these rifles before. (That's not true...I fired an M14, loaded with blanks, for Junior ROTC firing squad, at a funeral, when I was a freshman in High School). My proficiency will have to be self-taught, though I'm already familiar with the M14's sights, which is why I'm leaning towards that right now. Sights are remarkably important on a rifle, I think...]

So...can I get a price check on a new standard M1A from Springfield Armory? MSRP is $1300-$1400 bucks, but one FFL in my area used to have new ones, National Match models, I think, for $1299, so I'm guessing I could get a standard M1A for less than thirteen hundred.

But really, going by what I am most familliar with, I"d buy the VEPR II, which I am still considering, since it retails for half the cost of an M1A. Plus, I can get Kreb's to convert it to M14 magazines (you think those aftermarket M14 mags would work with an AK?), and I'm talkign to another smith about getting it converted to FAL magazines (I'd save a bundle in the long run). I've owned two AKs in the past and can strip 'em in my sleep. So, given my situation, I think the VEPR II .308 might be my best bet afterall. But only if I can get it converted to take 20 round magazines...

 

[Nightcrawler]

I've Decided!

A VEPR II .308 it is. Whether I can get it converted to take M14 or FAL mags is moot. THis rifle is as accurate as I need it to be, I am already familliar with the AK action and design, it's reliable and rugged as all hell and it retails for six hundred friggin' dollars. SIX HUNDRED, MSRP! You won't get a .308 semiauto, new, that you can count on, for less than that. The closest thing in price is the DS Arms FAL, and that retails for over two hundred dollars more.

The decesion is made. I apologize for wasting cyberspace with this thread, but think of it as thinking out loud, sort of.

 

[Zorro]

$1000?

Get 4 AK-47s a pile of Magazines for them and at least 1000 rounds of ammo.

Or 2 AKs and a decent Savage 110 sniper rifle.

 

[labgrade]

This has to be the fastest poll I've yet seen & that with only one reply that said don't get anything.

Tell the truth, nc, you were gonna get that VEPR no matter what anybody said.

 

[Dave3006]

Nightcrawler, this is not a flame, how many guns do you own? I haven't counted. But, I recall a post every couple weeks about some new gun. Again, this is not a flame. Heck, it makes me feel good that someone has the gun bug worse than me.

Buy the best gun you can and TRAIN. Go to the shooting schools, play paintball, take a martial arts class, jog, ect... It is funny how many of us fixate on only the gun part of fighting.

I am constantly amazed at the morbidly obese slobs I see at the range. They talk about fighting. But, they wouldn't last an hour because they couldn't run a lap around a football field.

I had to rant because it is true. It may not be your situation though.

 

[Nightcrawler]

WHo me? I own two guns. Granted, the 2-mile run on the PT test gives me some trouble, but I'm not in bad overall condition.

I own two firearms, currently. A shotgun and the Remington 7400 I bought last week. I've gone through a bunch, spending inheritance money, but hey, I'm putting myself through college here, I can afford it, for the time being.

Most of my posts about me wanting/asking about new guns are just that: wanting and asking. I couldn't possibly afford everything I want, and I want to try guns that I don't even really want to own. It's mainly curiosity on my part, and since I can't run out and do these things, try these guns, and gain this experience myself, I come here and ask people who already have it.

I don't really think of my rifle that's privately owned as a weapon of war anyway. I'm never going to get into a fight where I need a freaking .308 battle rifle. If the President sends me off to war, it'll be with my little M16, not with a VEPR II. If someone invades my home, I'm sure as hell not going to use a .308 rifle to defend with...not with our thin walls and close neighbors. My shotgun can do that job nicely.

I have guns because I like them. I think shooting things is fun. Most fun you can have with your clothes on, really. I want a .308 semiauto military-style because I don't have a lot of experience with them and want to try something new. I'd love to get an M1A, but maintaining some semblance of responsibility with my money, I can't afford a $1400 rifle any time soon, which is why I'm going to go with the $600 VEPR II instead.

On the plus side, going through all the different types I have has given me a broader base of shooting experience than I would have, seeing as how I've only been doing this for two years.

My big concern, however, is to get the military-pattern rifles I want NOW, because I don't think they'll be available down the road. I'm not saying "when I graduate from college", because most likely I'll be in college for another nine or so years...I'm not going to wait until I'm thirty to start buying guns.

My impulsiveness is coming under control these days, as I mature. For instance, when I bought the .30-06, I really wanted to get a .45-70 lever gun. But I looked at a box of .45-70. Nineteen dollars for twenty rounds. I realized that if I bought this gun I would not be able to feed it without breaking the bank, so I left it on the rack. Hopefully I'll be able to get one eventually.

I'm hoping to establish a small "core group" of guns that'll satisfy me until more financially stable times in the future.

Yeah, right. LOL

 

[The Jackelope]

I would also like to point out that trying out some of the above firearms to see which one resonates best with you is very important. But if that is not possible, I have to say go with the FAL.

Unlike just about all those other rifles, there are FAL parts available for cheap (including the all important magazines) from a LARGE amount of dealers. You also get that unique gas-control system, the ability to lock back the bolt with ONE HAND, reliability, really good ergonomics (unless your a lefty), and the fact that you can sometimes find them for cheap from someone selling one privately (try http://pub4.ezboard.com/bprivatepartygunsales for your area) so there is no paperwork.

I have to point out the fact that magazines are cheap and plentiful for these great rifles again. You can get them from $6 and up. Personally, I am fond of the $12 UNUSED Austrian steel ones from Tapco (www.tapco.com) because they WORK. And $12 for a 20 round .308 magazine is a STEAL. Hell, my Ruger Mk II .22 pistol's mags cost me between $10 and $15!

Another great source for FAL info is at http://www.fnfal.com/falfiles . Great bbunch of folks who have helped me in many of my questions and aren't stuffed shirts at all.

Big downside to the FAL, in my opinion, is that the steel handguards of the STG-58 get hot FAST. I have said handguards, and am relieved to find that Tapco sells plastic ones that will fit the STG's bipod. I realize that I am going to have to do some extra insulation as well, but as long as I can shoot my 2nd favorite rifle (Steyr Scout is my #1) without having to use an oven mitt, then that's a-ok by me!

Good luck!

The Jackalope

 

[Rob01]

How about one of the new Garands Springfield Armory is coming out with soon? They are taking orders now. My friend called them yesterday and said the dealer price was about $700+ and the retail would be about $1000. They are built on new receivers not old Garands rebuilt and the woman told him they are marked just like the WWII Garands. Garands are nice gas guns that don't take magazines, only 8 round clips, and don't have a pistol grip or flash suppresor so they don't have any evil features except they are one hell of a battle rifle. Just a thought.

But if I had to choose between the others I would go with the Springfield M1A and give you this advice. Stick with a basic model or maybe a loaded. They are much cheaper than the NM or SM and shoot as good as you'll need for a battle rifle.