Need advice on correcting aim issues

F

fzammetti

Inactive
Hi everyone,

I wasn't sure if this was the appropriate forum to post this in but nothing jumped out at me as more appropriate, so here I am :)

I have an interesting aim issue that I've been trying to fix, but I haven't really been able to so I'm looking for some advice.

Here's the situation... my shots seem to always land left and low off-center (it's mostly a left-right issue... elevation is off a little, but I'm a few inches left usually). I did a lot of reading about shot correction and I've been working to apply all of that but so far nothing seems to really resolve it. I've had a few pretty good shooters observe me and none spotted any obvious flaws in my technique (at least none that I haven't corrected now).

Now, for a long time this was just with reference to pistols... I have a Baretta PX4, Kel-Tec PF9 and Ruger LC9 and all of them, for me, shoot about the same (the Baretta is a bit more accurate, as it should be, but the same general pattern is always present even if the degree varies a bit). The odd thing is that I'm EXTREMELY consistent with it... if I was hitting dead-center I could probably make my dad proud in any competition I entered :)

I can manually adjust, that is, aim high and right, and I end up pretty much dead-on all the time... I can go out to probably 40 yards like this before I start to be just generally less accurate anyway.

I've had others shoot all three guns now and they're not experiencing the same thing, so it's pretty clearly me... whether its a technique thing or eyesight... now, my eyes aren't that great anymore... I really should be wearing glasses but I'm not, and maybe the answer is as simple as that. But I'm not so sure.

One last bit of weirdness... I recently picked up a 9mm carbine. I've been shooting this a bit and as you'd guess when comparing a rifle to a pistol, my consistency is even better... we're talking a 10-round shot group you could lay a quarter over with only a few slightly sticking out at about 40 yards, so quite tight... but... it's a group low and to the left again!

I'm not overly worried about defensive shooting at this point because even though I'm off, and even though how far off varies a bit from gun to gun (the carbine is probably 4 inches off-center, my Baretta is maybe 6 and the Kel-Tec and Ruger are maybe 8-10) I feel pretty good about my ability to hit an attacker at typical defensive shooting ranges. I won't hit exactly where I'm aiming, and probably less so than at the range given the situation, but I'm not too worried about being able to put rounds on my attacker somewhere more than once...

...but, logically I want to be a FANTASTIC shot on the range because I know I'll be worse in a real situation, so I really do need to figure out how to fix this problem. I could always adjust all my sites of course, but then that means my weapons are only good for me to shoot, so that doesn't seem like the right answer (maybe for my carry gun I could justify that, but not for the ones that are, ostensibly, home protection weapons, because I may not be the one shooting them).

So, does anyone have any advice they can offer? I almost wish it wasn't so consistent because then I could just say I was a lousy shot and be done with it :) But that doesn't fundamentally seem to be the case... it seems there's some flaw I need to correct in some way, I'm just not sure at this point what it might be.

Thanks all,
Frank
 
Frank, if you shot all of your weapons off the same way, check to see that you are not "cross eye dominent". Our oldest daughter is left handed right eyed, I know it happens.

Once you figure out (if you do) that you are cross eye dominent, there are several techniques for compensating for that.
 
Here is something few know, and fewer yet believe but its a fact.

Check the postition of your trigger finger. Assuming you're right handed.

If you are shooting left, slide your finger out of the trigger guard a tad. If you are shooting right, push your finger deeper into the trigger guard.

You can adjust your sight simply by where you place your trigger finger.

I'm a firm believer in Laser Sights for dry firing. The dot is going to go where the bullet is going to go.

If you can find a pistol with a laser, dryfire it. Push your finger in and out of the trigger guards and see what it does to the red dot as the hammer falls.
 
kraigwy, that was actually one of the first corrections I made at the advice of a pretty good tournament shooter at the range... I was hooking the trigger with my first knuckle instead of contacting with the pad, which is what I do now. I also make a conscious effort to pull straight back.

Hermanrr, I think you may be on to something... at my last eye doctor visit a few weeks back he told me something that sounds like it might be similar, if not exactly what you're saying... I've always had a lazy eye (left) and he told me that the sight in that eye has become quite bad, to the point where the right eye is compensating quite a bit for it. My eyesight overall isn't great, but its still acceptable overall, but only because the right eye is doing a lot more work than the left!

But naturally, when I shoot, its my LEFT eye that I site with, so the dominant eye is not the one being used. I never really thought of that before, its always just been the natural, reflexive way for me.

I'd really love to hear anything you have to say on compensating for this problem!
 
You say

But naturally, when I shoot, its my LEFT eye that I site with, so the dominant eye is not the one being used. I never really thought of that before, its always just been the natural, reflexive way for me
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There are a couple of things that jump out at me here:
  • Eye issues aside, you seem to be assuming that your right eye is your dominant eye. Have you checked this? The simple test is the triangle test. take both hands and arrange them in front of you so that your thumbs and forefingers together form a triangle. Then pick an object at least a few feet away and, keeping both eyes open, center it in your finger triangle. Now close your right eye. If the object is no longer centered in your finger triangle then you are right eye dominant. If it is still centered you are left eye dominant.
  • Shooting low and left is a well known trigger control symptom for a right handed shooter (lefties with the same issue will shoot low and right) usually this is fixed by adjusting your trigger finger to contact a different part of the pad. Generally, you want to be on the pad, but very close to the first joint.

I'm a cross-eyed shooter myself. I'm strongly right handed, but completely left eye dominant to the point that I can't close my left eye while keeping my right eye open. With rifles I shoot left handed because it's pretty much impossible to do anything else. With pistols I shoot both eyes open.

My bet is that you have a trigger issue.
 
You've really got me thinking here... and I don't want to dismiss your trigger pull theory either because even though I've made efforts to address that it still could be that I'm not doing as good a job as I think I am with it (although, I don't think its that because even with a rifle on a bench I get the same result).

But, that being said, this eye dominance stuff, which is new to me, seems like it could be the culprit. I'm doing some reading here and it's interesting... it does appear that I'm right-eye dominant... doing the triangle test, closing my left eye results in no noticeable shift, but closing my right eye results in the object being almost entirely obscured by my left hand.

So, right-eye dominant, right? But... here's my question now, and on the surface it seems silly but maybe it's not: should I be shooting with my dominant eye open? Because if the answer is yes that may well be the culprit: I shoot with my non-dominant eye apparently.

I've also never tried shooting with both eyes open... that's not how I learned. Maybe I should be doing that?

I think I'm going to hit the range tomorrow to test this, but I'd like to hear your thoughts, and I appreciate your help!
 
Most people have matching eye/hand dominance. If you think about it, the alignment of eye, shoulder, elbow and hand when firing a handgun is most natural if you are right handed and right eyed (or left handed and left eyed).

If you are lucky enough to match then you don't have to cant your head or do other gymnastics to get things to line up.

Shooting with both eyes open is less difficult for me in an Isoceles stance. The gun is centered in that stance. Many people who shoot for speed shoot handguns with both eyes open.


I'd say that there is no "right way" to shoot although some are easier and more proven than others. Experiment. If what you are using doesn't give you the results you'd like then keep experimenting. Safely of course.

And yes, based on your reported results from the triangle test I'd say you are right eye dominant.

I've never heard of someone choosing to shoot using their non-dominant eye by choice. Unless as a training exercise.
 
I've also never tried shooting with both eyes open... that's not how I learned. Maybe I should be doing that?
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Keeping both eyes takes a bit of getting used to; once you get the hang of it, however, (usually a couple hundred rounds,) you'll never close your non-dominant eye again.

I really should be wearing glasses but I'm not, and maybe the answer is as simple as that.
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The right glasses will probably make a noticeable difference. If you're over 35, have your optometrist adjust your dominant eye's prescription to focus that eye on the front sight of your gun. When shooting, keep your eye on the front sight, not the target. The target will probably be blurry to one degree or another. Keep your eye on the front sight, anyway. The target will take care of itself in due time.

Have I mentioned keeping your eye on the front sight?
 
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i use the very tip of my finger to squeeze the trigger...works fine for me, should be a surprise when the firearm discharges...
 
fzammetti said:
does appear that I'm right-eye dominant... doing the triangle test, closing my left eye results in no noticeable shift, but closing my right eye results in the object being almost entirely obscured by my left hand.

So, right-eye dominant, right? But... here's my question now, and on the surface it seems silly but maybe it's not: should I be shooting with my dominant eye open? Because if the answer is yes that may well be the culprit: I shoot with my non-dominant eye apparently.

I've also never tried shooting with both eyes open... /QUOTE]


Your consistency would indicate it's not an issue of "fingering" the trigger, which is what my de facto error is. The fact that the degree of error is related to sight radius rather than range also indicates more of a sighting issue.

Try shooting with both eyes open, right (dominant) eye focused on the front sight. You stated your left eyesight was worse, so your brain may be compensating for that and throwing your aim off by focusing with your right...

Edited b/c I screwed up reading your post...
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
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