need advice on CC pistol

tackdriver

New member
I'm thinking about purchasing a pistol for concealed carry/self-defense. I'm fairly proficient with both rifles and shotguns, but I've only handled pistols a few times and it was many years ago.
I'm a student though and unfortunately I don't have a decent income. I've been looking at the Kahr semis but can't afford one new. Anyone have any advice on brand/model/caliber?
FYI, I'm a 180lb male if that makes any difference in pistol selection.
 
Tackdriver,

I carry a Kimber Ultra Elite .45 and sometimes a Kimber Pro Carry .45 or Colt Lt. Wt. Commander .45. I am 5' 8" and 180. Also, occasionally carry a Colt Agent .38.

However, if you are considering cost, several LEO's suggested that a Ket-Tec 9mm is a gun weapon for about $290--in the Atlanta area. You will find many suggestions on TFL and all will be good. Your choice should be based on your personal needs and circumstances.

Vee's .02

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Well, I'm no expert, but I can suggest a few-

A Glock 19 in 9mm, Glock 23 in 40cal, or a Glock 30 in 45 ACP are all similarly sized and priced. Their polymer frames make them exceptionally light, they're utterly reliable, very durable, simple to operate, and the tenifer finish makes them very corrosion resistance. High-capacity mags can be had for the 19 & 23, holding 15+1 of 9mm and 13+1 of 40cal rounds respectively, and the 30 holds 10+1 of .45 in its stock mags. I carry a Glock 19 in the spring and fall, when jackets and windbreakers make concealing a pistol easier. Seeing as you are a lot bigger than me (an earth-shaking 5'5, 140lbs), you'll probably find it a whole lot easier to conceal any one of these three pistols. Expect to pay around 450-550$ new for anything in the Glock line, but used pistols can often be had for less. In fact, you can buy a factory refurbished Glock 19 or 23 with 2 hi-cap mags out of the Gun List for 450$. Used and refurbished Glocks are usually a good buy, because they're pretty much indestructible anyway. Those would be my first choices in a full size pistol. They're the best combination or concealability, firepower and light weight.

If you're looking for something a little smaller, a Glock 26 in 9mm or a Glock 27 in 40cal is a good choice. They're a good bit smaller than the first three, with all the good points I first named. They hold 10+1 of 9mm or 9+1 of 40cal, respectively. With these two I'd recommend a Pearce grip extension for your pinky, because a full grip makes these little numbers a whole lot easier to control. I find the 40cal to be a handful! They're around the same price as the first three.

Another great buy in this size is the Kel-Tec P-11 in 9mm, or the P-40 in 40cal. They're slightly smaller and lighter than the mini-Glocks, same capacity in both calibers, and about half the price (A buddy of mine just recently picked up a brand new P-11 for 233$, tax and all). Reliability is very good (although I wouldn't compare it to a Glock out of the box); with a little "fluff and buff" internet magic it's excellent. It's only down point is the L-O-O-O-N-G trigger pull which takes some getting used to, but with a little practice it becomes second nature. I hate to admit it, but the little P-11, in my hands, is as acuurate as my bigger Glock at 25 yds once I got used to the trigger. Buffing the trigger assembly a-la the internet makes it MUCH easier to shoot. Check out the Kel-Tec Owners Group for more info on this pistol. Again, I'd reccomend a grip extension for either model. When my Glock 19 is indiscreet for carry, the Kel-Tec P-11 rides easily in a jacket pocket or on a belt clip under a sweatshirt.

My last choice is going to draw some fire - but I like it. Kel-Tec also makes a 32cal pistol, the P-32, which is probably the most concealable pistol I've ever seen. It weighs less than 10 ounces fully loaded with 7+1 rounds of 32cal, and is VERY thin. Reliability is very good, and the price is about 200-240$. Sure, the 32cal isn't the last word in a defensive round, but it's miles better than nothing, and this little pistol will go anywhere you can put a pocketknife or wallet. I'm really going to like it come summertime when the 90 degree+ days will make a t-shirt and shorts standard attire. It's really hard to conceal a pistol with minimal clothing, but the P-32 will make it world easier.

I hope all my long-winded advice helps. good luck!



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"Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam
 
I can wholeheartedly endorse the Kahr to you. I would suggest the "economy" model E9, if you're on a budget. Some can still be found in all blued steel, but the newest ones have a stainless frame.
Small enough that you can always have it w/you, carries eight rounds, and easy to operate. Only one, smooth, trigger pull to master, and even my spouse does'nt mind its recoil. Very easy to clean & maintain, for an auto.
 
Hello; In the line of concealed carry weapons, the Smith & Wesson Model 60
.38 Special revolver can be found
sometimes in the $250.00 price range
for a used specimen. In a Bianchi IWB,
it makes a good concealment firearm.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Any Taurus,Smith and Wesson or Ruger sub-nosed revolver in .38 Special will make a wonderful carry gun for any budget. I like the larger semi-autos for use in Winter when heavy clothing is an option but when the Mercury rises in the Summer Months, I really like a snub-nose revolver. I am just not much on small and compact semi-autos. There's nothing wrong with them but I prefer a snubbie. The Bianchi speed strips are great. They are a plastic strip that allows you to insert six cartridges that can be quickly loaded two at a time into the cylinder or quickly removed into your hand. You will be surprised how many of those will fit in fairly loose fitting trousers without printing-----just be careful when you go to pay for something with change from a front pocket!

I will single out the Smith and Wesson Airweight 442 with the conclealed hammer. It weighs 15 ounces and carries nicely in the front pocket of loose trousers in a rough-out leather holster----any good gun shop can help you with the holster. The recoil is tough but managable. I prefer the Remington Golden Saber 125 grain hollowpoint for the sunbster. BTW, they fit nicely in a robe pocket when you answer a late-night doorbell. Do not discount the Taurus 85. For the money it is a great bargain.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
BTW, the Rossi Snub-nosed .38 is made by Taurus and has a hammer-block safety which means the trigger must be pulled for the weapon to fire. It retails for $200.00 plus tax.

Good luck

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."


[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited February 06, 2000).]
 
Speaking of a Kahr, as listed in our own, TFL, classified,

"Kahr E9 9mm for sale. Prior deal fell through. I am the original owner and I have the hardcase and papers. The gun has been shot 3x, it has 300 rounds through it and it is in like new condition. I can email you a picture. You can check my feedback at auctionarms (faiello5) and ebay mediaone.net) in order to buy with confidence. Ship to FFL only. Please speak with your FFL to insure he will accept shipment from a non-FFL. $275 + $20 shipping. You can email me at faiello5@mediaone.net."

Sounds like a good deal to me.

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John
(formerly johnboy)
 
If you're on a budget, go with the Kel-Tec line. Comes in 9mm, .40 and .32
I have a P32 which I use for a pocket gun (my main is a Kimber Ultra Elite). Though the .32 is not the ideal defensive caliber, with lots of practice, you'll be alright.
Keep in consideration the many good revolvers available. You can't go wrong with a used S&W 60.

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Svt
Son's Place

Rangers Lead the Way
 
You can get a new Taurus or Smith & Wesson revolver for about half the cost of a Kahr. Pistols may be the "in" thing (and I myself own twice as many pistols as revolvers) but the revolver is far from dead.

The two advantages that a pistol offers over a revolver are quick reloads (if you have a spare magazine already loaded) and quicker fire (if in single action mode). These two advantages rarely ever come into play as most civilian encounters involving a gun do not even require a shot to be fired and the ones where a firearm is discharged, on average, have only one or two shots fired.

When you factor in some of the other things that could go wrong with a pistol (jams, springs wearing out causing reliability problems, etc.), a revolver might be worth considering.

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Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD.
 
Get a used but good Smith or Taurus .38 Special. A J-frame or K-frame (if it's cheaper). The J-frame is more concealable in a pocket but both are about equally concealable on the belt and the K-frame may be a little less expensive. Have a gunsmith go over it (costs about $20) to insure reliability. Get some .38 Special +P 158 grain lead semiwadcutter hollow points and a good holster. Total price: $300 or less. Then, get some training including both a handgun safety course and a self-defense/judicious use of force course. I cannot overemphasize the training part.

I carry a Glock 26 and/or Sig 229. I've been shooting for years and have thought myself knowledgable on self-defense issues. After taking the first part of LFI-1, I realize I didn't know jack about the real world.
 
"I'm a student though and unfortunately I don't have a decent income."

Fist sacrifice some money on a safety course. Best money I spent was on a five hours course with a WWII vet. No nonsense just straight talk on safety, choosing a pistol, and all other essentials. It cost $45. I know it's not LFI or Thunder Ranch but it beats no training by a light year.

If you're anything like me when I was in school than $50 or $100 makes a difference. Thus I strongly suggest you look into an affordable, reliable, and more or less light weight pistol. IMHO the Makarov fits your requirements. You can find good quality NIB Bulgarian Maks at most gun shows for about $150, price incldues three mags and a holster. If you want a 9mm and don't mind something larger give the FEG (Hungarian) HiPower clone a hard look. I've seen these with one standard capacity 13 rounds mags at shows for about $180. There you have it, two dependable and reliable pistols for under $200.

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So many pistols, so little money.
 
Tackdriver:

Hey, I know what it's like to be on a budget as a student. I was in college for 10 years but I got three degrees out of the deal!

Get that Kahr E9 John is selling. Anytime you can get a well-known brand name gun from the original owner, do it. You may be able to preserve his lifetime warranty if you run it through him as a condition to the sale.

I had a Kahr E9 that I bought new for $312 in Seattle a year ago and traded it for a Glock 26. The E9 was a pindriver, reliable, and shot loaded rat turds for me. Good gun. Not Net complaints on the Kahrs. Go to deja.com and find out what other shooters are saying about their guns and the companies they buy from.

For under $300, you're not going to get a better deal.

Kel Tecs are cool little tinker guns BUT very few LE depts approve of their officers/agents carying them on or off duty. They are not reliable as a brand. They are constantly being complained about on the Net.

And why do they have a a user's group whose main focus is gunsmithing the gun to where it should have been shipped out in the first place. Kts just don't have the attention to detail and the fit and finish of the major gun makers.

As they (KTOG users) have explained it, it's a $400 gun you pay $300 for and you have to fine tune it. Yeah they're cheap but you have to do the buff and the fluff on it yourself and if you're not good with mechanics, your gun trip to the factory could cost you 4 weeks! H*LL NO! Not even with your money!

Look at the Grendel, that is theirs as well. It's a piece of crap - people can't give them away. Why buy from a company that rushes product to market before 95 percent of the glitches are out? They are dangerous items friend. About 15 percent of the responses I'm reading on the P-32 include failure to feed, slide failures, and other mechanical problems.

Get a Glock, Kahr, HK, Sig, or SW. Rugers are great too but hard for CC.

The only thing that Kel Tec has consistently made well that doesn't have an alarming number of guns going back to their Fla factory is their sub-9mm carbine which for some reason doesn't conceal too well except under a trench coat.

My best advice to you is to go the range and rent several of these guns and see what you shoot the best and then buy that one.

Look at the rentals the range offers. The kel tecs are hardly ever available for rental because they cannot stand up to the abuse.

It's better not to have a gun for a couple of months then to rush out and buy a "deal" like a Kel Tec P111 that you can't shoot but saved a lot of money on.

You'll end up trading it away for the Glock or the Kahr in 6 months flat. Wait and buy the gun you want. Maybe it would be a neat second handgun but if you're going to protect your life with it, your life is worth a Glock or a Kahr.

Get a PT job and save your money so long as your grades stay high, if they are. Then buy your gun.

Join the gun club at the college. Great way to meet NICE girls. Wink. Wink. Nothing so attratcive as a woman who proudly knows how to whack wood with an AR-15!

PATIENCE . . .

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The Seattle SharpShooter
 
There is lots of good advise I'd give already covered by others...

I'd decide on your needs- do you want a service grade pistol? Can you conceal it if you do? What do you wear? Year round? How are you built- size and weight? Do you want deep concealment? How do you want to carry? These are all things only you can decide. When you do, I'd visit the local shop/range and try out several different brands and sizes. Explain your needs to the guy behind the counter. Get feedback- this is a great place to get feedback, by the way.

I've carried full sized Glocks and HKs with no problems. But that is me. I've gotten the 1911 bug and am switching over- but that's me. What works for you- that's you.

Erik
 
Well, if you are like me, all the "you can get a glock for just over $400.00" talk isn't helping. I've gone through half a dozen handguns I've used for concealed carry, and as I often find myself on the losing end of horsetrading, I routinely have to make due with what I have.

I currently carry a FEG clone of the Walther PP (James Bond's gun with a 4" barrel)in .380. I've put hundreds of rounds through it and it has jammed maybe once or twice, and the 4" barrel makes for pretty good accuracy. It is also easy to conceal.

You can have a FEG PP for $200.00, and they are popular enough to find pretty easily.

Spend an extra $50.00 on a safety course.

My .02.
 
Hey everybody, I am not selling the E9 Kahr. I just copy and pasted the for sale post. There is also a Lady Kahr for sale at $400. It comes with a holster with it. Good deal also. All you have to do is go look in the for sale forum and do a search.

I have a K9 that I like a lot and it is definitely not for sale.

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John
(formerly johnboy)
 
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