Need advice: Model 70 25-06

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Sierra280

Moderator
I have the opportunity to buy an older Winchester model 70 (70s, has the g before the serial) it's chambered in 25-06. I'm looking for a project rifle and have been wanting to build a 25-06AI. Would this be a good candidate? I have no experience with the model 70 and am just curious what its pros and cons are, and what I should look out for. Any help would be appreciated.

Ps. Please no caliber suggestions, I already have 22 cal guns and 30 cal guns, I am looking for something intermediate.
 
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I'd like it just fine, provided it isn't a push feed (YMMV).

The trigger's are adjustable, and the bbl'd action's workable for rebedding if needed.


What's not to like ?


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Model 70 push feed

I know there are ardent fans of the Mauser type feed in the older model 70's, and I respect that a great deal. Never having even held one in my grubby mitts, I can't say anything about them, except they must be great guns.

I have a Shadow model 70 in .270 Win that has worked great for me (push feed and all---never a jam or failure to work perfectly). The plastic stock was trash, so it has been restocked.

My opinion is that you would do well with a post '64 Model 70 in 25-06. Given the caliber you likely won't use the gun for dangerous game hunting.

Whatever you decide, good luck and enjoy the project!
 
How long is the barrel?

If it has a 24" tube then the AI would be worth doing. The 25-06 really needs 24 inches to perform to it's potential. You will get about 150fps from the AI. I thought about it with mine but, decided IMO that it really was not worth the trouble to fire-form the brass.

That said, it kills deer like a lightning bolt, better than anything that I have used before...really impressive/dramatic kills. Not crazy about the rifle, (Browning A Bolt) but it is very accurate and fairly light, just not very appealing visually.

I wanted to get a Model 70 featherweight in 25-06, but opted not to because of the 22 inch barrel. I have one in 30-06 and it is my favorite rifle. Perfect balance.
 
Considering the already "top end" performance of the 25/06, how much are you really going to gain with the AI? I have both 25/06 and 257 Wby and have found that, with 24" barrel, there's only 200 FPS difference in MV burning 10-15 grains more powder with the Wby. Unless you're going to exceed commonly accepted max loads with the AI, I seriously doubt you'll see 100fps improvement(if that much).
Maybe I've got a "slow" Wby barrel and a "fast" 25/06 barrel but these are the facts in my equipment.
 
Thanks for the info. I think I will have to go get it this week.

I have no problem with the push feed. The gun comes with a pretty much ruined leather sling, iron sights and a leupold vari-x ii 3x9 (has a gnarly mark, like it got dropped on its side). The gun has a wood stock that a little bit worn, the chamber/bore looked alright but the first thing I will do is check the headspace. If I can have some fun with it before having the barrel set back/chamber reamed that would be nice. But if not, at $350 the price is right.

Also, I realize the 25-06 is pretty much over bore capacity to begin with, but I've always wanted an Ackley Improved rifle, this is looking like a cheap way to have one.
 
.25-06 and the M70 even in a push feed should be a great rifle. However if you've ever read P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders, you would know that even Mr. Ackley didn't see much point in an improved version. He said that the .25-06 was already about as much as you could expect from a cartridge that size.

So you probably won't see any performance gains to speak of though you'll not have to trim brass in the future. If you want a cartridge that truly benefits from the AI process in a bolt action rifle look at the .250 Savage or .257 Roberts.

Article posted on Precision Shooting Website about Ackley Improved cartridges

The best velocity gain of all the Ackley cartridges compared to the standard factory cartridge comes with the .25-35 WCF with a 117 gr. bullet and a gain of about 25.6%. The second best is the .30-40 Krag and the 180 gr. bullet showing a velocity gain of 19.3%. Both are rimmed cases and neither one is being chambered for today. Therefore, we will start with the third best velocity gain of 17% as found with the little .250 Savage when converted to the Ackley configuration and loaded with the 100 gr. bullet. Our rifle companies have chambered for the .250 Savage from time to time, but it is rapidly becoming obsolete in spite of the many knowledgeable shooters who use it regularly. The factory .250 Savage load is 2820 fps, while the .250 Ackley attains close to 3300 fps. This little speedster can equal or exceed the factory velocity of the much larger .25-06, listed at 3220 fps. And it is being done with 15 – 20 grs. less powder which means a great deal less recoil for the same velocity and trajectory. This is downright amazing…. And all this is being done in a short action. This .250 Ackley cartridge is not shown in any modern reloading book that I know of. Some books do show another .25 caliber, the .257 Ackley, that lands farther down the line in eighth place for best Ackley percentage gainers. I have used the .250 Ackley for both varminting and big game hunting with outstanding results.
Click to expand...
 
I have an oringinal printing of Saint Ackley's Shooters and Reloaders Handbook. That's what first turned me on to the 220swift (PO shot through a railroad track, half track front armor and those poor burros didn't stand a chance).

The improvement in case life and the 100+fps gain on the 25-06 is enough for me. That and the cool look of the 40degree shoulder. If I was going for straight up improvement I would probably be looking for a 30-40Krag. But like I said, this looks like an affordable option for the time being.
 
If you really want to see some speed out of a .25-06, AI or not, load a Barnes 80gr TTSX for it. Hammer of Thor on deer or yotes. I wouldn't be afraid to go black bear hunting with that bullet and may do just that here in a few weeks.
 
You don't mention price. The 1980 and newer pushfeed's are good guns that are often undervalued. While it is probably going to be a solid gun for your project it probably isn't worth much more than about $300-$350. Good if you're buying.

I'm not a fan of the 25-06, but if I had a chance to buy one of those rifles in a caliber I liked at a good price I'd do so with confidence. You could do a lot worse.

I also prefer CRF. But most people will never notice the difference and I feel the Winchester is one of the better PF designs.

Can't help you much with AI vs standard. I prefer to keep stuff simple, so I wouldn't do it. But you're not me.
 
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