Need a new rifle and need some recommendations

G

gtriple

Inactive
Hi. New member and first time post here.

I am going Elk and Bison/Yak hunting this year and I would like a recommendation on what caliber and, ultimately, what rifle I should purchase. I would love a rifle that would fit both needs. I know that the requirement to kill a bison is much greater than an elk. Through my searching, I've seen the 375H&H and 458 recommended most for bison, while the 300 win mag or weatherby for elk. I've used a 300 weatherby for elk in the past. Could a 338 win mag be a good middle ground?

I am a good shot and am comfortable shooting deer at 300-400 yards. I also don't have a problem with recoil or noise, but I don't want it to be overkill.

I am open to suggestions so please don't hold back. I am also open to the fact that it might just not be responsible to use the same round for both animals.

Here is a site that I could base my caliber choices on: http://riflebiggamehunting.blogspot.com/2012/11/hunting-black-bear-elk-brown-bear-bison.html
 
My uncle drew and filled a bison tag in Utah years ago. He used his Model 70 chambered in 30-06 with 180 grain bullets, the same gun he used to kill many, many elk and deer. I don't believe you are going to need anything new, your 300 mags should work fine as long as you pick a good bullet and put it where it needs to go.
 
I do not still have the 300 win mag or the Weatherby. Both went away with sales/trades in the past. I will be purchasing a new rifle for these hunts. I plan on doing elk hunts yearly for the foreseeable future, so that would really be the priority.
 
You're going to get many recommendations for an '06 with 180's, and for good reason. That said, when I lived in Idaho, it seemed the .300 Win Mag was everywhere. It's about another hundred yards reach. But the hardest hunter I knew there (drove to Alaska and hunted Dall sheep with his brother out of a backpacking tent) shot a .338 Win Mag. Several years ago, I handed off my 7 Mag to my brother and took up the .338 cause. First, it's reputation as a brutal kicker is overstated. Oh, it moves you, but with a decent stock and recoil pad, I believe any motivated hunter can master it and shoot well. Second, take that '06 180 trajectory and make your bullet 250 grains. The BC of, say, a Sierra GameKing results in lots of energy at any reasonable range. And no bullets coming apart if you're too close. That long reaching 250 starts at only 2,700 fps. So, I like it.

But it's not for everyone. My Idaho hero, after extolling the .338 for 15 minutes, ended his lecture with, "Get a 30-06." You pays your money and you takes your chances.
 
It's hard to beat the 338 Win Mag for all around BIG game use. It's what I'd pick if I were lucky enough that I could hunt elk regularly with the occasional bison.

Others worth thinking about: 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, warm loaded 45-70 if the ranges are relatively short.
 
A good bullet from a 30-06 will do what you need, one of the 300 magnums will add a little effective range, but be no more effective. One of these would be my recommendation as an all around rifle. They are on the lower end of acceptable for the bigger animals, about perfect for elk and versatile enough for smaller big game with mild recoil. A 200 or 220 gr Nosler Partition from either a 30-06 or 300 magnum have proven to out penetrate everything else short of 375 magnum.

If I felt the need to have something bigger I'd skip everything else and go straight to 375 mag. It is really more than needed for elk, but with the right loads shoots surprisingly flat at longer ranges and is still capable for anything that walks.
 
So it seems like I am getting a lot of recommendations for a 30 caliber for elk hunting. That would be great because they have more manageable recoil and are cheaper to shoot and practice with.... However, will a 30 caliber really be good enough for a trophy bison responsibly?
 
Loaded with 200-220 gr Nosler Partitions a 30-06 will out penetrate 338 WM on a Bison. There is less data to compare, but one of the 180 gr Barnes Copper bullets would probably do as well if not better. the 338 will make a .03" larger entrance hole, but after inside I doubt there is any difference. The same bullets fired from a 300 WM will do the same thing as a 30-06, just from 50-100 yards farther away.

Bison aren't that hard to hunt. You basically pick out the one you want to shoot, walk up and shoot. There is plenty of time to line up the shot and not have to make one from a bad angle.

The larger calibers might offer some advantage on game that is a lot harder to hunt and you have to make a shot at longer ranges or at less than desirable angles. I can see where someone might like a 375 for shooting fleeing elk in the butt. But as long as ranges are reasonable and you can put a good bullet in the lungs a 243 will put down elk.
 
Nothing wrong with a .30-06, I have killed a lot of elk and a few bear with one. About 10 years ago or so I switched to a .338-06 and it is my favorite rifle bar none. To me, it is about the perfect big game caliber for NA. Less recoil than the Magnums, a bit better than the .35 Whelen or the .30-06, and very accurate. Only downside is factory ammo is scarce and expensive, so a handloaders endeavor.
 
Okay, I am set on getting a 30 cal. Either 30-06 or 300 win mag. I like 308, but nobody has recommended it for the bison. Choosing between those is pretty difficult though. I am going to just see if their are any locally on Armslist.
If anybody has anymore recommendations on shooting a bison with a 30-06 or a 300 win mag, please post.
 
I'll give another vote for the 30.06. I've not taken bison, but judging by how they have been taken in the past, and the hunters who still choose to go old school for bison, the 30-06 could easily do the job if you do yours. I'll even toss in 7mm Rem Mag, though you are limited to 175gr bullets, which is why you probably have more suggestions for the '06.

You havent heard much about .308 as they are a slightly scaled down 30-06 with less case capacity, and less for bullet selections.
 
I'm a big fan of the 30-06, but I question the oft repeated assertion that it will penetrate better and kill more effectively than a .338. A 220 gr .308 bullet has about 7% advantage in SD (.331 vs. 313) over a 250 gr .338, but it's going 2,400, maybe 2,500 if you really push it vs 2,700 for the .338 without stretching the specs at all.That's 1,000 lb-ft over the '06. If you load 275 gr in your .338, you'll be at the same velocity as the 220 gr '06. I don't have the SD for the heavyweight, but I can't see how a lighter bullet at the same velocity will penetrate better.

Doesn't mean the OP should get one, but it is a superior cartridge if you learn to shoot it well.
 
I am really in love the BAR longtrack with the oil finish and aluminum reciever comes in a variety of calibers, shoulders nice they had some steller deals here at reeds in walker mn, but ive got an ontario bear hunt this fall (as well as here ) and an archery moose hunt next fall so i couldnt really afford one :(. for bison in 06 i think a 180 partition, tsx or trophy bonded tip would be fine 200 yards and in. never hunted bison good luck :)

3030
 
I have no problem hunting elk with a 30-06 and would take a bison with one given the chance. However, my elk rifle is a custom Mauser in .35 Whelen shooting the 225 gr. Barnes TSX and it either kills outright or anchors elk positively. On my elk hunt two years ago, a ranch hunt BTW, they wanted to cull a few bison and I was offered a hunt for $1,200 take all the meat hide and head. If I hadn't already taken my elk I would have gone for it but would not have enough freezer space. Yeah, I know. Buy another freezer. That would have required space I did not have. If I'd taken that hunt, I would have had no qualms using the .35 Whelen for the hunt. FWIW, I have taken elk with the 30-06 and .300 Win. Mag.; the 180 gr. Nobler PT in the 06 and the 200 gr. Nosler PT for the .300. If that was what I had when I got the offer for the bison, it would have used them Should have just bought another freeze. :(
Paul B.
 
Gtriple

Sounds like you are comfortable shooting at 300-400 yds. About any hunting bullet from Speer , Hornady, Sierra, or Remington coreloks in a 30 /06 are very effective on elk of any size at those ranges. A 180- grain BT with a relatively high ballistic coefficient (.49 or greater) and you can stretch that out another 100 yds. 400 yds has always seemed prudent for what we do. And we've never lost any. I can only think of once when it would have been handy to have a .300Win and still don't regret not having it. Now when we are talking elk we are talking
400- 800 lbs in the steep backcountry, and 1000 + in the lower elevations.
Of course the .300 Win. will do that too and then some.
So what it boils down to is this:

1) The .300 Win weighs a couple extra lbs (unless you have an ultralight model that will hammer you to death). 2 lbs is an extra canteen, or hatchet, or spotting scope in your daypack. May not be a big deal to some, but is to others.

2) 30/06 shells are not as expensive (and are a bunch less than a .338 or .375)

3) 30/06 Barrel life 3 to 4 times longer than a .300 Win. May not matter to you but may to your grandkids.

4) If you are a reloader, your brass will last much longer in an 06 and will take a lot less powder.

5) Magazine capacity

6) 30/06 is far more pleasant to shoot from the bench.


As far as buffalo, there likely have been more buffalo killed with black powder catridges than any of the modern day magnums. Not to mention the unknown number taken by native Americans with the atlatl, bow and arrow and the lance.


This article was posted on THR fairly recently and think it should be recommended reading.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/1/31/no-ordinary-rifle/




Idaho Gaiters
 
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Just please do not use a Core-Lokt on anything bigger than a whitetail...almost anything but.
Click to expand...

Our elk up this way are pretty thin skinned. Corelokts work great on them.
But we'll defer to your expertise since I don't have the time "to waste" arguing the point. Idaho Gaiters
 
Yep, I got one of those thin skinned Idaho elk with a Core Lokt above Swan Valley awhile back. Late hunt, 7 mag, 400 yards, one shot, DRT.
 
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