Need a bit of help on this S&W

[rsweetride]

This is a top break, Double Action revolver in caliber .38. It has a lot of Family history behind it and I am now trying to get more info on this pistol. I have searched the internet. Looked at 1st series and 2nd series. Can not find the info on it. Now, here is the kicker. There is no info on the top of the barrel nor is there a serial number on the butt. Nor, does it show that there ever was one nor that they have been shaved off. Going beyond that, every time I find a picture that is close, its not. The Trigger/finger guard is screwed on, or, the upper part of the butt is squared off where others are rounded. The trigger will be different. The sides of the ones I see in pictures have what appears to be a circle on it, but this one does not. I have looked at over 2000 pictures of the early S&W top break. Could this have been made in another country? Thanks for any help. BB

 

[PetahW]

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Welcome to TFL !

[EDIT: I apologize for my extraneous comment that I had entered here ]

IMO, the akward positioning of the front sight, further back from the muzzle than is normal, and the lack of any S&W markings in the metal, lead me to WAG that it's a foreign-made copy, from Spain or Belgium (most likely).

There may be some European proofmarks on the frame, under the grip panels.



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[Mike Irwin]

It's fine in revolvers, Petah.

Give Katniss my best...



That said, I agree that it is NOT a Smith & Wesson. It's after the S&W pattern, but there are lots of things that aren't right for it being an S&W.

The barrel contouring is wrong, especially as it approaches the action latch.

The contouring of the underbarrel lug is wrong where it approaches the hinge.

The trigger shape is wrong for a .38; it's more reminiscent of one of the large frame Frontier revolvers.

I'm not 100% sure, but I THINK all of the .38 breaktops had a sideplate, and that one does not appear to have a side plate.

The prawl (knuckle on the rear of the grip frame) is WAY too sharp. S&W's were more rounded.

The front sight is too small, in the wrong place, and doesn't appear to be pinned on.

The grip shape doesn't appear to be correct. It's more attenuated, not sweeping as in the S&W.

The shape of the hinge on the lower frame is incorrect.

The cylinder stop notches are not correct for an S&W.

And, finally, the hammer doesn't appear to be contoured anything like an S&W.


My guess is that it's something of a copy of a Smith & Wesson Double Action, Second Model. You can see a picture of an authentic Second Model here (top): http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6PbD56mSkS8/S-hSURylnAI/AAAAAAAABQg/FJ4H6-bWfzY/s1600/datopbreaks.jpg

But I would bet money that it is NOT an actual S&W.

 

[rsweetride]

lol

I just moved it to the other section. I will learn in time. Sorry for the mix up.
I agree with all of you. I was having the same problem with finding a correct match. This pistol was carried by a great, great uncle who was a Capt. of an old Clipper ship that carried that last load of Lumber from Mukilteo, Wa. to some where in Australia. The mill was then closed down. So, he traveled a lot and may have gotten it from, who knows where or from who knows who. Lol Thanks Gentleman for you input. BB

 

[Mike Irwin]

OK, you can't move your posts. You did what we call "cross posting," which is posting the same thing in multiple forums here at TFL.

We don't allow that for the simple reason that it fractures and dilutes discussion and it takes up bandwidth that we all get for free.

That said, some posts can legitimately be placed in more than one location here at TFL. This is one of them; it is at home in revolvers, it's at home in Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research, and it could also legitimately be placed in Blackpowder and Cowboy Action Shooting and, finally, it could also go in Curios and Relics.

I'm going to close the other thread that you opened because yes, this one IS OK here.

If a thread really needs to be moved, ask a member of staff, such as me. We have the ability to move threads seamlessly.

Thanks, and welcome to TFL.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, last thing.

You're going to have to reattach your photographs to THIS thread if you want other members to be able to see them. I couldn't move them back.

 

[BWM]

S&W has a site that all you need to do is post the first 3 numbers of your gun and they will give you the info. GOOD LUCK

 

[rsweetride]

Thanks BWM, but

there are no numbers to use for research.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Sorry, but what you have there is not a Smith & Wesson revolver. It appears that someone has put some S&W grips on it, but the rest of the gun is not a S&W. I have posted a couple of photos of a S&W Double Action, 3rd Model, which is what your revolver most closely resembles, for reference. You will see your revolver is very different in many details.

There were many copies of S&W revolvers made during the 19th Century, mostly in Europe. S&W had patents covering their revolvers in this country and they were fierce about patent infringement. They were not always able to enforce their patents in Europe, particularly in Belgium where there was a brisk trade in counterfeit Smiths. Some even had the nerve to stamp S&W right on them.

 

[James K]

You might check for proof marks, especially on the back of the cylinder. An oval with the letters E L G (Liege mark) would mean the gun was made in Belgium. If there are any other marks, a good closeup photo would be needed for identification.

Jim

 

[Mike Irwin]

Chances are very good it's a Belgian gun. The Belgians tended to make the copies of the smaller-caliber breaktops more so than the Spanish, who tended to make Hand Ejectors.

There were Spanish companies that did make the smaller caliber breaktops, but for some reason you don't tend to see them nearly as often.