Neck Sizing
- Thread starter rtmamba
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Unkl Chuck
New member
Some folks do what you're asking by simply backing off the standard full length die until only the neck is sized, same for a shoulder bump. Never tried that, but you can experiment and see if you like the results.
A 'better' solution is a set of Lee Colet dies [ $35~$45 at the usual sources], they work good, if you follow the instructions. Beyond that, there are several brands of bushing dies that are quite precise, beware that this approach can be expensive. Personally, I use collet dies and bushing dies.
Remember that when you neck size, that brass is 'married' to that firearm. Keep your neck sized rounds separated from fully sized ammo in marked boxes.
Be careful and good luck.
A 'better' solution is a set of Lee Colet dies [ $35~$45 at the usual sources], they work good, if you follow the instructions. Beyond that, there are several brands of bushing dies that are quite precise, beware that this approach can be expensive. Personally, I use collet dies and bushing dies.
Remember that when you neck size, that brass is 'married' to that firearm. Keep your neck sized rounds separated from fully sized ammo in marked boxes.
Be careful and good luck.
Welcome! Glad to have you with us.
I'm not a fan of neck sizing, and generally you need special dies, like the lee neck sizing die. It may be possible with standard dies, however you may run into issues of not getting your case sized right in the body. If you really want to neck size I would look into the lee neck size die. its fairly inexpensive.
Here are some vids to watch on neck sizing.
"STOP NECK SIZING YOUR BRASS!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG2kSrD40g
"How do the best shooters in the World resize their brass for maximum accuracy?"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaqg4sJvg24
I'm not a fan of neck sizing, and generally you need special dies, like the lee neck sizing die. It may be possible with standard dies, however you may run into issues of not getting your case sized right in the body. If you really want to neck size I would look into the lee neck size die. its fairly inexpensive.
Here are some vids to watch on neck sizing.
"STOP NECK SIZING YOUR BRASS!!!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG2kSrD40g
"How do the best shooters in the World resize their brass for maximum accuracy?"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaqg4sJvg24
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Yes and no, most resizing dies use an expander ball to size the neck. As mentioned earlier you can back the sizing die off where it wont push your shoulder back but it would still resize the body of the case and use the expander ball to size your neck. If you want to neck size only without resizing your case at all you can just get a lee collet die there cheap and work great.
There has been endless debates about neck sizing vs full length resizing dont get caught up in all that do your own research and decide what is best for you.
There has been endless debates about neck sizing vs full length resizing dont get caught up in all that do your own research and decide what is best for you.
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After you've learned how a rimless bottleneck case fits the chamber when fired, that should help you understand why proper full length sizing produces best alignment of bullet to the bore when fired. Hone die necks out to a few thousandths less than a loaded round neck diameter then use a smaller expander ball. Sierra Bullets championed this in the 1960's. Popular today in benchrest disciplines.
Rifle and ammo accuracy is best defined by the largest groups fired.
Rifle and ammo accuracy is best defined by the largest groups fired.
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603Country
New member
Yes, you can neck size with a FL die. It’s called ‘partial resizing’, and the older Nosler reloading books showed you how to do it. For years, if not a decade or more, that’s exactly what I did for my 220 Swift. Just adjust the FL die to size about 2/3 or 3/4 of the neck. I had superb accuracy in my old Ruger 77V.
603Country
New member
I neglected to mention that the Partial Resizing I mentioned won’t work on all cases. I did it for tapered cases like the 220 and 270. Those tapered cases allowed me to size the neck (Partially) without touching the shoulder. You don’t want to touch the shoulder with the die. These days I mostly reload 223, 260, and 6.5 Grendel (soon), and I haven’t tried anything other than a FL resize/shoulder bump on those cases.
Maybe the fact that cases of the newer calibers these days are not so tapered is why Nosler no longer mentions the procedure in their reloading books.
So, yes, you can neck size with a FL die…maybe.
Maybe the fact that cases of the newer calibers these days are not so tapered is why Nosler no longer mentions the procedure in their reloading books.
So, yes, you can neck size with a FL die…maybe.
reynolds357
New member
Depends on how much taper the cartridge has.
stagpanther
New member
I neck sized for a while until I saw Erik's video and just had to buy the t-shirt he designed. My shooting has improved ever since.
Seriously, I arrived at the conclusion on my own that as long as you keep your "working travel" of measured shoulder expansion in the .002 to .003 range relative to your headspace-- you and your rifle will more likely remain happy campers with consistent results. Consistent results IMO means not only the performance of the bullets, but also the ease of working the action and minimizing stress on brass. You can still use bushing dies to control neck tension. Case diameters and tapers can also change under firings in my experience (hence why I prefer full-length sizing), where you can potentially get into trouble is match chamber cuts that are generally cut to tighter tolerances than commercial ones. I'm not an expert though, so I defer to what Unclenick and Bart say.
Seriously, I arrived at the conclusion on my own that as long as you keep your "working travel" of measured shoulder expansion in the .002 to .003 range relative to your headspace-- you and your rifle will more likely remain happy campers with consistent results. Consistent results IMO means not only the performance of the bullets, but also the ease of working the action and minimizing stress on brass. You can still use bushing dies to control neck tension. Case diameters and tapers can also change under firings in my experience (hence why I prefer full-length sizing), where you can potentially get into trouble is match chamber cuts that are generally cut to tighter tolerances than commercial ones. I'm not an expert though, so I defer to what Unclenick and Bart say.
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reynolds357
New member
To be fair, the "full length sizing" that bench rest shooters do is IMO closer to neck sizing than it is true F.L. sizing. My bench guns get their brass sized in 2 steps. 1. Neck sized and then 2. Body and shoulder sized. The Body die is set up so that the case snugly, but not stickily, fits the chamber. Basically what I am doing is simulating a one shot neck sized case but preventing it from growing past there.
(My loaded ammo won't "pass the plunk test".)
(My loaded ammo won't "pass the plunk test".)
Yes.
One way to do it is to set the die up for FL sizing (per mfg instructions) and then back the die out the distance of the case shoulder height. Then test and possibly adjust a bit more, or less, depending on your results.
Neck (only) sizing was touted for years as the best way to make the most accurate ammo. The reasoning was sizing only the neck to hold a new bullet and leaving the rest of the case as "fireformed" to the chamber gave the best results for accuracy. using brass "custom fitted" to your chamber instead of being fully resized to an industry standard. Also, not working any more of the case than absolutely needed meant (usually) brass lasted longer. SO more accurate and longer case life, what's not to love?
Along with this always came the warning that it was usually NOT suitable for ammunition intended to be used in more than one gun. Hmmmm...
They were right, some of the time, and not right some of the time. Everything has a range of tolerances, and in some guns, things worked just like they said they would, In others, not so much....
A LOT depends on what cartridge you are shooting and what specific gun you are shooting it in. A LOT, more than anything else, really.
I load for rounds ranging from .22 Hornet to .458 Win mag in rifles and I FL size everything, except .303 British.
And the reason I neck size for that one is the rifle I have. it has one of the "generous" chambers and since the round headspaces on the rim, resizing the case body back down to min specs (FL sizing) simply works the brass so much it wears out way too soon. (like 2 loading cycles or less, instead of 6 or sometimes more)
This is one example of where the rifle used matters more than other factors. My .303 is a 1917 in original condition, with the wear its picked up over the past century plus. Its not going to be a match grade rifle, ever. And it never was.
ALL of the various tips and tricks used by reloaders only work in rifles that capable of using them.
Neck sizing might be just the ticket in rifle A and do nothing noticeable in rifle B.
Tiny, precise measurements and adherence to specific dimensions might make a match winning improvement in a target rifle. Doing the same thing in a deer rifle might make no difference at all. Or it might make some noticeable difference, only testing can tell you for certain.
What I'm trying to say is that loading to "X" off the lands or bumping the shoulder back to "Y" could be worth the effort in some situations and not in others. If, for example, doing the extra work and precision crafting the ammo turns your 2MOA deer gun into a 1 or sub MOA rifle, I'd say its worth it. But if it does nothing, or only turns that 2MOA gun into a 1.9MOA gun, I don't think its worth the work.
Everyone's guns are very slightly different. Some are very different from others. General advice is good for general advice. Only testing with what you actually have will tell you what it does, and doesn't do.
reynolds357
New member
Neck sizing is the way to go in Contenders, Encores, Apexes, and about any break action rifle. On the Early Contenders, T.C. was so bad on their headspace that neck sizing was the only way some of the rifles would shoot. (Literally, going bang was erratic with factory or FL sized ammo)
reynolds357
New member
I have a 7-30 Waters and a 30-30 that will not even reliably fire when full length sized. Actually having to headspace off fire formed shoulder instead of rim to make reliable.
If you're shooting a rimmed case and the gun won't reliably fire headspacing off the rim (like factory ammo does) I'd say there's something wrong with the gun.
The only way I can see something like a .30-30 chambering and not firing is if the rim recess is cut too deeply for the firing pin to properly reach the primer. Or if the case rims are "too thin" either way, something has to be out of spec.
The only way I can see something like a .30-30 chambering and not firing is if the rim recess is cut too deeply for the firing pin to properly reach the primer. Or if the case rims are "too thin" either way, something has to be out of spec.
That, or a stretched gun or short firing pin protrusion, etc. I would give it a once-over with the measuring tools to ensure it is in spec.
Rtmamba,
One factor that can make neck-only resizing a problem is a chamber that is not perfectly coaxial with the bore. You'd be surprised how often that occurs in production guns. If you have a slightly off-axis chamber, then it is important to place the cartridges in the gun with the headstamp oriented the same way each time. Doing that will tend to make any bullet tilt or other error land in the same place on the target each time.
The reason a small degree of FL resizing helps with rimless bottleneck cartridges is it narrows the case a bit, so it has a little lateral wiggle room. When the gun fires, the cartridge is driven forward against the chamber shoulder by the firing pin, allowing the front of the case to center itself as its shoulder taper meets the chamber shoulder's taper. If there were no lateral wiggle room, it wouldn't be free to be centered by that action. When it is, it can make up for small errors in coaxiality of the chamber and bore, as well as tend to center the case neck in the chamber neck to give the bullet a straight start into the throat.
Rtmamba,
One factor that can make neck-only resizing a problem is a chamber that is not perfectly coaxial with the bore. You'd be surprised how often that occurs in production guns. If you have a slightly off-axis chamber, then it is important to place the cartridges in the gun with the headstamp oriented the same way each time. Doing that will tend to make any bullet tilt or other error land in the same place on the target each time.
The reason a small degree of FL resizing helps with rimless bottleneck cartridges is it narrows the case a bit, so it has a little lateral wiggle room. When the gun fires, the cartridge is driven forward against the chamber shoulder by the firing pin, allowing the front of the case to center itself as its shoulder taper meets the chamber shoulder's taper. If there were no lateral wiggle room, it wouldn't be free to be centered by that action. When it is, it can make up for small errors in coaxiality of the chamber and bore, as well as tend to center the case neck in the chamber neck to give the bullet a straight start into the throat.