neck sizing primmed .308 brass

B

big phil

Inactive
G'day folks,
I'm new to reloading and new to this forum so if what i am about to ask is dumb please be patient with me. I have been given a Lee hand loader and a bag of ex military .308. I have read that you can pull the fmj bullets and replace them with a suitable hunting bullet. my question is basically can I neck size the military brass that has a primmer in it, or can I just seat the new bullet in the case. My plan was to pull the bullets of 10 cases,weight the powder to get an average and then reload with new bullets. Thanks in advance for any help. As I live in Australia due to the time difference I may not reply straight away. Cheers.
 
If you are talking about the Lee Breech Lock hand press, or most any other press for that matter, yes just remove the decapping pin from the expander button within the sizing die and neck size to restore proper bullet seating tightness, which is usually recommended rather than just reseating a bullet without resizing. The next issue will probably be removing the crimp from the military primer pocket cases when sizing after firing. Perhaps that has already been taken into account. Verify that the cases are boxer primed, rather than berdan primed, before attempting to size and deprime the fired cases.
 
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Not a hand press

G'day Condor Bravo, Thanks for the reply however I don't have the press you are talking about, I have a Lee hand loader that requires hitting the neck sizing die with a mallet and then using a supplied steel rod to push out the case. I hope this helps clear things up and thanks for the prompt reply. Cheers.
 
Right on; as long as the decapping pin can be removed from the expander button within the die, follow up with neck sizing by using the mallet with the hand loader system. Most would probably recommend resizing after pulling the bullets which I guess is what you are asking. But adequate bullet tightness might still be present without resizing. You could first explore that possibility before resorting to resizing.
 
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I'm new to reloading and new to this forum so if what i am about to ask is dumb please be patient with me. I have been given a Lee hand loader and a bag of ex military .308.
Click to expand...

The primers are crimped if the military cases have not been fired and the primer punch is made onto the tool that removes the primer so there is no removing, but what ever you do not support the case head while the primer is supported. Removing the case from the die should not require a lot of effort because the die is not a full length sizing die, it is a neck sizer die for fired cases.

F. Guffey
 
"...I have a Lee hand loader that requires hitting the neck sizing die with a mallet..." No bashing primers with a mallet. So you cannot use that tool. Doable with a bench mounted press and dies or a Lee Breech Lock Hand Press though.
Best you shoot it, remove the primer crimp and then you can use your Lee Loader.
Throw those daft scoops away though. They're calibrated in CC's, a metric unit of LIQUID volume(no CC's used in reloading), and they can vary the powder charge plus or minus a full grains.
Used with a scale, your Lee Loader(started with one myself) will produce good ammo, but you'll need to FL resize eventually anyway. BNIB brass and any brass fired out of a different rifle(like 'once fired' stuff) needs FL sizing too.
Oh, and it's called Mexican Match by our American cousins. snicker.
 
I've neck sized plenty of primed cases that had the bullets pulled and powder removed. You can do as suggested and remove the decapping pin or, as I've done, simply set the decapping pin to its shortest length within the die (ensuring it doesn't protrude out the end of the die at all) and run the case through the die like you normally would. Be sure to practice safe loading techniques and wear all appropriate PPE when performing such actions.
 
Because you have pulled bullets, left live primers in the case, then resized them and got away with it. It is problematic as the amount of case pressures is unknown w/ a primer in an unknown state. It's like blowing a yellow light and getting away w/ it for decades doesn't make it safe. That's just my opinion. Just be sure you are wearing good safety glasses and a drill press full face shield just in case.
 
Most of us are not familiar with the Lee hand tool and Guffey in post #5, from my interpretation, seems to be saying that the decapping pin might be an integral part of the stem, and accordingly could not be removed. If so, could the entire stem be removed or backed off and neck sizing then be done??? Those who have used that hand tool would know if the sizing can be done with the primer intact.

The cases are military but not further identified. Before going any farther with this it might be best to verify that that the cases are not Berdan primed.

Big phil, pull a bullet, dump the powder, and look down the case towards the primer pocket and determine if there is just one centered primer flash hole (meaning Boxer primed) or two or three off-centered flash holes (Berdan primed). If the latter, the cases could not be used after they had been fired and you might want to immediately discontinue using those rounds and acquire some commercial .308 brass or loaded ammunition. But if the military .308s are Boxer primed, you should be able to continue with them.

And, if the cases can be neck sized with the primers intact, continue that way.

Or, as suggested earlier, you could first try reseating a different bullet without resizing and see if there is substantial bullet hold remaining in the case neck.
 
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I'd like a clarification on something . Are you saying you are going to pull the bullet from an already factory loaded round then replace with another bullet ? while at the same time still using the same powder and charge weight ( or average of the ten you pulled ) that was in the original factory cartridge ?

If so then I'd say no you can't neck size the case with a primer in it because you should not just replace a bullet in a factory loaded round . So it does not matter what you're sizing or if there's a primer because you should not do any of it . :)
 
Note that the cases are military and he wants to replace the fmj bullet with a more appropriate one. The initial consideration, with the tool at hand, is if neck sizing can be done with the primer intact. Since then one or two other considerations have developed. So far it seems that the responders are not that familiar with the hand tool. I am not. One of my suggestions is to determine if resizing the neck is necessary. There may still be enough bullet hold without resizing. And the military rounds could be Berdan primed, not yet verified one way or the other.
 
What the OP is considering making is called "Mexican Match" (not a derogatory term, I understand the method may have been first used at a match in Mexico). It is not an unusual thing to consider and has been done many times before. See Kraigwy's post here.

I don't know if the cases need to be neck sized and I wouldn't bother if they didn't. Use a bullet that's close in weight to what you're pulling.

Unless you KNOW the ammo is all from the same lot don't mix the powder. Leave the charge in the case and just change the bullet. Don't consider "looking the same" to mean "being the same" when it comes to powders.
 
To summarize, the project is so far "iffy" depending on the capability of the hand tool, and secondly if the military rounds should even be used on the possibility of being Berdan primed. But if those two considerations are favorable, the crimped primers are still an issue. Probably best to obtain commercial cases and start fresh but we don't know the availability of components in Australia. But he would like to do as best he can with the items on hand and only replace the bullets.
 
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Yep I understand what he wants to to do and I'd even give it a try . How ever the question and how it was asked along with the fact he has only 4 post makes me concerned he may not have a lot of experience with reloading .

Maybe I should not have posted in the thread but I was concerned he may not really know the consequences that may happen if he put the wrong bullet on top of that load . It was easier for me to say don't do it rather then explain all the ways it could go wrong .

1) pulling 147gr bullet and replacing it with a 190gr bullet ( not good )

2) replacing with the same weight but the new bullet is a sold that has a much longer baring surface . ( not good )

etc etc

There are a few things to consider before taking on such a task .
 
Roger on your concerns in your reply and your comments can only benefit. True we don't know his reloading experience. But by all means jump in on the thread and pointing out other considerations. Hopefully the project will work out to his satisfaction. Unfortunately he doesn't have anything more advanced than the hand tool.
 
Big phil:
If you do not yet have a bullet puller, fire one or two of the rounds and determine if they are Berdan or Boxer primed per post #9. If Berdan primed, give up on those rounds. If Boxer primed, swaging the crimped military primer pockets will be an issue for future reloadings. Is commercial .308 brass readily available out your way? If so, those will make the job much easier, especially if the tools are not available for continuing with the military brass.
 
There is one simple point. In hand loading you must control as many variables as possible. The only thing that you have any knowledge of is the bullet that you will pull out.

With all of those unknown elements, nobody should do something as potentially dangerous to equipment or people as this could be, especially just for a "bag of" military ammo.

If I serve any purpose here, it's to stand up and say "don't do that! Something may go horribly wrong!"

40 years ago, a friend cut off his hand with a power saw, my cousin lost a toe to a lawn mower, my brother in law cot off his finger, and back in Tennessee, while I was living there, a guy managed to cut off his own head with a chain saw. He bypassed the safety automatic cut off, tripped, fell on it, and lost his head. It killed him when he fell and it lay there and idled until it ran out of gas, and once again, his tinkering allowed the chain to move while it idled.

This sort of thing is all safe as long as you are careful, and God loves you.
 
Ummm. I believe the OP said he had a Lee Loader. None of the Lee Loaders I have depriming stems. All came with a depriming punch, used by itself with a mallet. I think since a Lee Loader only neck sizes bottle necked brass, it wouldn't be a problem. The case sits in the depriming base, which had a hole in the bottom larger than the primer, to allow primer to be punched out. The "live" primer in a case being sized in a Lee Loader is in contact with nothing. It does not matter what kind of primer, Boxer or Berdan, unless the user wants to punch out a primer. Using a same weight bullet, I'd say try it...:D
 
A Lee loader requires that the brass be pounded into the sizing die with a mallet.. Anyone can read the instructions online. Hammering on live primers is frowned upon, especially in the presence of powder.

Whatever you do, don't hang on that bras with live primers.
 
OK, I guess it is now clear that the depriming rod with the hand tool is a separate punch and not a part of the neck sizer. So he can continue to neck size after removing the bullet and powder. But powder would first be removed before attempting to punch out a live primer, but doing that was not a considered part of the process. The thread seems to have reached the point where we are discussing it between ourselves rather than assisting the OP. But I appreciate now having an understanding of the hand tool and realizing my initial assumption to be incorrect (that you could simply remove the decapping stem from the sizer).
 
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