Nazi gun control

C

Cato

New member
I am a history student here in Austria and have studied the various Nazi laws. One book on this issue, which is available in the US and which I really recommend is "Gun Control- Gateway to Tyranny" by the JPFO.
It is true, the Nazis needed no new gun law when they seized power in 1933.
Germanies freely elected center and center left governments of the 1920s feared a communist revolution or civil war and chose to disarm "politically unstable" elements of the society years before the Nazi government. So they enacted the "Law on firearms and ammunition" 1928 which required full registration of firearms owners- as well as permits for getting ammo and for hunting. It's quite interesting that there are terms like "Sporting purpose", "proof of character", "proof of need", etc.- sound like gun laws today....
As a result almost every firearms owner registered his gun ( we Europeans tend to trust democratic government- they know what is the right thing for us unwashed masses ) and then the Nazis had no problem confiscating guns and ammo. By checking the data of the ammunition permit ( non gun ) owners they guessed where illegal weapons would be..............

It was in 1938, after the "Anschluß" of Austria, when they decided that more gun control was needed- the "Weapons Law" of 1938. This law stated that no Jew could be involved in the firearms business or own ANY weapon.
One thing is for sure- the Nazis were by no means gun banners or haters ( Hitler obtained a carry license in the 1920s ), they were elitist gun controllers. Those who were in the "Partei" could own gun ( even carry ) permits and those who were in the SS, Gestapo or certain Special Forces didn't even need permits.

As a consequence of this it was very hard for the "Widerstand" to get guns to fight the Nazis. Many communist and socialist freedom fighters were killed while they tried to organize guns. So they chose to manufacture crude guns- but sometimes even machine pistols- in car or metal factories, often under the eyes of their Nazi bosses. Whereas organizing ammo was a real problem.
That's the reason why total gun control can't work. If the Nazi police state couldn't prevent them from producing guns and committing "crimes against the society", how could a democratic state with fundamental civil rights such as the USA?
 
There in lies the rub. They can't so they will use the resultant non compliance of the criminal & freedom loving people to encourage the Sheeples to demand less and less freedom, by the time the sheeple understand what is going on they will live in total fear of the Goverment, as did, or still do most of the people in Facist Germany, Communist Russia, and China. Remember there is only one real differance between Facist, Communist, Socialist, and Nazi. The Name, in all these Forms of "Goverment the state rules over the people, not the people control the state.
 
Cato, I'm not sure what you are arguing. Are you saying that since the Nazi's couldn't control guns in the long run, then people like HCI and Clinton should quit gnawing at the gun control 'bone'? Or, are you arguing that we who believe in the RKBA should quit worrying about this issue so much for the same reason? I suspect you are just making these statements to start a conversation. ;)

If I assume the last possibility, I would point out that while the Nazi's were ultimately unsuccessful against these poorly armed citizens, that would not have been the case if the Nazi's hadn't been fighting most of the rest of the world on two fronts.

Regardless, I have no desire to ever find out if citizens could overthrow such a despotic regime. As you pointed out, it is a terribly costly undertaking. Iraqi's could probably give us a recent lesson on that point.

With regards to our vaunted 'fundamental civil rights', the only one that protects the RKBA is the 2nd Amendment, and it is clearly under constant pressure.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 02-07-99).]
 
I wrote this because of the Hitler quote debate ( "for the first time in history a civilized country has full gun registration.." )- seems like another "urban legend", altough it is possible that one of the leading Nazis said something similar when the 1938 Weapons Law was enacted.
Yes, the point I tried to make is that gun control cannot work- it will only hurt the law abiding citizens and the cost may even be genozide. If the people realize this the gun control debate will- hopefully- be over, but with all major newspapers and TV stations against us ( it's the same here in Austria )it is very difficult to undermine their arguments.
So the long term cost of gun control can be devastating, but we have also to educate people that every penny spent on gun control is wasted. Consider Australia after the recent ban of "dangerous" weapons and a huge buy back event:
One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be
destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the
government over 500 million dollars, the results are in.
A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced. Gun control advocates respond "Just wait... we'll be safer...you'll see...".

OBSERVABLE FACT, AFTER 12 MONTHS OF DATA:
* Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
* Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
* In the state of Victoria,homicides-with-
firearms are up 300%
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-
firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-
firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of-the-elderly
* At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said "self-defense is not a reason for
owning a firearm"
* From 1910 to present, homicides in Australia had averaged about 1.8-per-100,000
or lower, a safe society by any standard.
* Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been observed after such monumental effort and expense was
successfully expended in "ridding society of guns". Their response has been to "wait longer".
SOURCE : AUATRALIAN BUREAU OF STATISTICS

Violence on police rising 5feb99
ANOTHER police officer has fallen victim to violence.
Police statistics showed violent crime against Victoria's police was
rising, with more than 2300 attacks a year.
Sixty-two police officers were attacked with knives last year, double the previous year. Threats and injuries involving firearms were four times higher.
 
Cato,
The next statement from your press and politicos will be the the problem is that there are still some guns in the hands of citizens. They will state that when all the weapons are out of Private hands then crime will go to zero.
When that doesn't work they won't have to say anything because you won't be able to do anything about it anyway.
Your new goverment is on the fast track to tyrany. Pity.
 
Cato,

Thank you for these important facts. All who oppose the restrictive gun control measures in this country should study and learn this information in our efforts to liberate everyone from these oppressive laws.
 
Cato, thank you for expanding on your point. Those are very interesting stat's - does the AUSTRALIAN BUREAU OF STATISTICS have a web site that we yankee's can easily access?

I agree with Raymond - these facts won't deter the 'true believers'. Many of those folks will continue to believe that if their solution isn't working, they just need more of their solution. Same as our drug laws, IMHO, but that is another story ...

Also, the average citizen believes genocide cannot happen in their county, in spite of Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Rwanda ... Anyone who believes it possible is just nuts. ;)


[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 02-08-99).]
 
I am going to ask the Austrian NRA ( I am from Austria- not Australia. Big difference :). Only with regard to gun control it's almost the same situation here ) if they know of a webside for the Australian statistics.

Jeff, I think many people believed in the "Weimarer Republik" too that a genozide was impossible in the civilized, democratic Germany where Beethoven, Schiller and Goethe had lived.
Some historians even argue that this genozide was more possible in the 1920 Sowjetunion or
even France where Jews were not as well integrated into society as in Germany.
If we can learn one thing it's that it can happen everywhere and that we shouldn't trust even the best governments too much.
 
I don't think there is a webside of the statistics bureau, but you can go to the Australian NRA at http://www.ssaa.org.au/
They have lots of interesting data.
 
Jeff, Cato....

Yes, the significance of Germany is paramount. In many gun control/banning debates, when defending from a tyrannical gov't is brought up and the past examples of genocide are noted, they are dismissed as having occurred in 3rd world "uncivilized" countries. "It can't happen here"
They fail to realize that Germany was as "1st world" a country as was possible at the time.
Tho still crippled from WW1 debt and the worldwide economic depression, Germany was, in infrastructure,education and science, no worse, and actually better in some areas, than the US and Great Britain.

Human nature being what it is...."It can happen anywhere, in any place"

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Cato, thanks for the URL. And, as far as there being a big difference between Australia and Austria, I must point out it is really only two letters, my friend. ;)

And DC, I agree. However, then they'll say something like, 'well, you don't really think we'd ever have Nazi's in this country (i.e. in control), do you?' No, I don't - I doubt they would be dumb enough to call themselves Nazi's. Serious negative brand recognition on that one. ;)

On a more practical note, and since we are on the subject, does anyone know how the Nazi's came to round up weapons? That is, their methods, the timing and so on ...

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 02-12-99).]
 
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