National Association for Gun Rights (again)

B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
We have had several discussions in the past about NAGR and/or Dudley Brown here on TFL. Unfortunately, I couldn't find one that wasn't locked to update.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=456721&highlight=nagr
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409998&highlight=nagr
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439326&highlight=nagr

Recently, this thread on AR15.com popped up in which a poster accused the National Association of Gun Rights of lying about the current law in order to generate money for the organization.

The letter went like this:
National Association for Gun Rights said:
I’m in a bind.

It’s illegal for me to tell you which candidates the National Association for Gun Rights PAC supports. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Federal Election Commission (FEC) expressly forbid me from telling you which candidates are so solid on gun rights that I want you to help us help them.

It sounds crazy, I know.

But the anti-gun Obamacrats who run the federal government don’t want gun owners and activists like you and me to be organized going into the 2012 election.

That’s why the IRS/FEC will only let me tell “a restricted class” of “legal members” of the National Association for Gun Rights who they should –– and shouldn’t –– support in the election.

The good news is, I’ve found a loophole around their legal gag, and frankly it’s pretty easy.

All you need to do is chip in at least $5 (or more), and take a positive pro-gun action, and you can then be counted as part of our “legal membership.”
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Mr. Brown gives his response in the thread and I found it lacking in a great many respects. Since his alerts regularly get reposted to this forum and the organization has been discussed several times in the past, I thought it would be worthwhile to share the AR15.com thread so other Second Amendment supporters can form their own opinion of the organization and decide whether it warrants their support.
 
Mr. Brown gives his response in the thread and I found it lacking in a great many respects.
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You're being very kind to Mr. Brown.;)

Where is the federal law or regulation promulgated by the IRS and/or FEC that says you may not tell people who your PAC endorses? Also, what does state law have to do with this, aren't you claiming that this is from the IRS and FEC?
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This was his response when you called him out:

Quote by Dudley Brown:
Our attorneys are worried about things like DISCLOSE, new efforts to circumvent Citizens United (I've known David Bossie –– of that case –– for 20+ years), and want us to be able to call as many people members as humanly possible, thus being able to talk to them about politicians, regardless of new attempts to curtail that speech. You are correct if you say my letter doesn't quite explain it that way. Mea culpa.
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He's gained the ire of a Colorado-based firearm forum. It's a shame. I don't care for the money grubbing tactics of the NRA, and for Dudley, one of I think only 2 other pro-gun organizations isn't any better.
 
The NAGR made no PAC contributions to gun rights until 2010 when $6,000 was donated
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So, roughly the same budget as the Brady Campaign. And I'm supposed to dump the NRA for these guys? Nope.

It should be mentioned that the only thing I've known Dudley Brown to do is own and run a website dedicated to nipping at the NRA's heels.
 
Well, Dudley Brown bailed from the AR15.com thread after it got too hot for him to handle. His last message is on Page 4 I believe and it is just typical General Discussion shenanigans after that if you don't want to read the whole thread. I think the thread is a good reference for anyone considering whether NAGR is worth the investment.
 
BR, Thanks for posting this link. A man who can not defend his organization and resorts to insulting people is not someone I would support.

I guess I will just continue to play in my little sandbox. :)
 
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I, too, demand Thunderdome. I was taken by one of Mr. Brown's quotes, however:

If you’re interested in slick, Gucci-loafered lobbyist who buy $200 lunches in posh D.C. eateries, we’re not your group.
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You know, that's exactly what I'm interested in. Guys like Brown (and Pratt) expect me to make an "us or them" decision when it comes to supporting a 2A organization. Okay, I'll choose the guys who actually schmooze with people who get stuff done before I'll choose the guy who stands on the steps yelling slogans at passers-by.

I've seen a couple of state-level organizations take the same mentality, and frankly, the NRA bashing gives me serious pause.
 
Bartholomew, I read the AR15 thread in its entirety and was outraged, saying so in a thread on The High Road. I'm very happy I got off his mailing list and never gave him any money. I lost count of the number of times he was asked what law made disclosure illegal, and similarly lost count of the times he absolutely, blatantly ignored the question.

Silence, in this case, is extremely damning. He lied for money. Simple as that.

There are valid critiques of the NRA, but they continue to get my money because while they might, on occasion, be prone to dramatics, they've never just lied to my face before.

Thanks for spreading the word. The fight for the Second Amendment is hard enough without snakes in our midst.

Also, as a citizen of Wyoming, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Mr. Brown greatly exaggerates his efforts here. Constitutional Carry passed here with hardly a murmur.
 
You know, that's exactly what I'm interested in. Guys like Brown (and Pratt) expect me to make an "us or them" decision when it comes to supporting a 2A organization. Okay, I'll choose the guys who actually schmooze with people who get stuff done before I'll choose the guy who stands on the steps yelling slogans at passers-by.
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Excellent response. :cool:
 
LawScholar said:
Silence, in this case, is extremely damning. He lied for money. Simple as that.
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Well, if you thought the silence was damning, then you are really going to love the post where Brown returns on page 5 after his "Goodbye children" comment and acknowledges it isn't illegal for his PAC to tell non-members who they endorse. Which once again raises many questions which he has once again declined to answer so far.
 
Never heard of them.

I don't send money to organizations that use made up words like "obamacrats". I don't send money to organizations that can't seem to explain their actions either.

ETA- Hey there is no AHSA on the open secrets website. What is up with that anyway?
 
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While I don't like NAGR, even if I did I wouldn't send them money. Generally I donate only to the NRA. To spread my donation money around several 2A organizations merely dilutes the money. I prefer to keep as much focus and power in one strong organization.

I'm not saying that other organizations are crooked or useless like NAGR, but I am saying that the NRA is the most effective.
 
I might slightly disagree. State associations like the Texas State RA is very effective and useful. Depends on the state I guess.

Thus, I belong to both.

You need local folks to have a closer touch on the political classes for state issues.
 
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