Nagging question

J

Jack 99

New member
In reading another thread (Religion vs. me), I was reminded of a nagging question that I've had for some time now. Maybe someone here knows the answer.

Remember why the ATF raided the Branch Davidians at Waco? Supposedly, Koresh and his followers were stockpiling "illegal" weapons. The other justification was allegations of child abuse, which, though serious, wouldn't have been something for the Feds to get involved with. However, in all of the footage I've ever seen of the F Troop assualt, I can't detect any automatic fire coming from the Davidians.

After the dust settled, I expected to see Reno make some announcement of what weapons they had found and some statement to the effect that "Our brave F Troop stood up against 70 wackos with 50 fully automatic AK 47s" or something along those lines, but it never materialized.

What weapons did they find? Were they really "illegal" or simply evil looking "media illegal" guns, if you know what I mean?

I'd be really curious to know.
 
My recollection is that all the weapons conveniently burned up, and the results of the examination of what remained was basically inconlcusive.
 
Jack, from the title, I thought this was about my first wife, but as long as I'm here... I seem to recall statements to the effect that the "machineguns were destroyed in the fire".
 
In my readings on the subject, the government recovered some weapons they maintained were machineguns. The surviving Davidians who were tried never challenged that, so the guns weren't examined by defense expert witnesses. The NRA perhaps, or someone, tried to get access to the recovered weapons to have an independent laboratory examine them, but were stymied by the government.
 
That's pretty much what I figured. There's a member of AR15.com that goes by the handle "Plausible Deniability"

Seems to be the Government's tactic all too often. Makes me want to throw some tea in the harbor.
 
Somewhere, on "some website", I read (rumor, rumor) that Branch Dividian guns were displayed by some federal officer as the fully automatic weapons in question.

The NRA was invited to come look to their little heart's content UNTIL the NRA said they were bringing some kind of X-Ray (flouroscope, whatever) equipment that would show whether the weapons were full or semi-automatic.

Suddenly, the weapons were not longer available.

I have not been able to find the website again and have no idea where I was surfing at the time. Has ANYbody heard anything similar to this or have real info?
 
i read some where that one of the 3rd tier ar manufacturers caught some heat from selling ar parts to the dividians

heres a quote from this website http://rampages.onramp.net/~djreavis/faq/index.htm
David Koresh have illegal weapons?
Yes. He admitted as much to the FBI in a phone call during the 51-day siege, and he admitted
having the guns in a conversation with Dick DeGuerin, his lawyer.

they prolly had ars with installed illegal dias
if they had a rock & roll 50 cal i think they would have used it to a greater effect then what happened

dZ
 
Soldier of Fortune magazine has had the Waco situation analyzed by weapons experts and has cited a number of other sources which tend to indicate a lot of abuse of authority and serious intent to kill the people and destroy the evidence. I read all of this a while ago and will have to look for the articles.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
As I stated in another thread, there were full-auto weapons in the compound, you did not see them fired because they were locked in their vault by their owner, A LICENSED CLASS 3 DEALER who lived with the Davidians (was a Davidian, in other words) and he was off the premises at a gun show. They were legally owned and legally stored, in other words, and when the conflict began no one could get to them for that reason.

Larry P.
 
There are a lot of issues surrounding the Waco "incident."

The ATF alledged NFA violations, as has never "proved" them. At one point during the senate hearings, a burned Kalisnikov type weapon was brandished, called a "machine gun" and the whole issue was let go. I don't recall there being any expert witness attesting to whether or not the weapon in question was able to fire multiple rounds from a single action of the trigger assembly.

In the hearing, most honorable Chucky Schumer stated something to the effect of "they had machine guns, and -we- only had 9mms" Well, the footage clearly shows some of the shock troops in retreat with M-16 type weapons, so that was clearly a lie, again.
Chucky boy also railed time and time again about the murder of the federal agents, when the courts had already ruled that the deaths were the result of armed self defence and friendly fire, and there was no murder. Charles Schumer doesn't concern himself with facts. Neither did Tom Lantos, but that is to be expected, as he is a commie/fascist switchhitter. That is to say strongly communist in ideology, and eager to adopt fascist tactics as a means to that end. Fact.

There were NFA weapons on the compound, no one argues that. They were there legally. The government has maintained they were used in the defense of the compond. They never proven this. The ATF had a camera person present who was rolling video. The tapes somehow came up blank. The big "who shot first" debacle seems to revolve around what happened to the compound front door. The steel door was removed from the scene by the FBI, and then "lost".

Emperical evidence exists to back up most of the claims made by Vernon Howel aka David Koresh, and very little emperical evidence exists to back up any claims made by either the ATF or the FBI. In fact, statements were made by operatives of the ATF and FBI both under oath which were shown to be falsified. The "government" did in fact tamper with evidence and statements. This is a fact. There are very few statements from the Branch Davidians to examine because most of those people are dead.

The most damning evidence is the FLIR video. The senate commitee saw the tape and heard testimony and flat out refused to comment on it. The FLIR tape can be explained in its entirety by a tank with ground support firing into the stucture to keep the people inside from fleeing, while incendiaries are fired into the structure. Other explainations have been offered by "3rd parties" which conclude nothing. The government offers no comment.

The fire department was notified, and was held back until the fire was completely under way before they were allowed to proceed to the compound. The job was finished.

Occams Razor: "All other considerations being the same, the simplist explaination is usually the right one."

In short, if the Gubbment shows up attcher door and shoots yer dog, you are in for a rough day.
 
How can you be "under-armed" and "out-gunned" with a MP-5 in CQB? Of course, then there's the evidence that the "ninjas on the roof" may well have scored some "own goals".

Basically, the Feds acted like the bully on the playground, shocked that their victim had the insolence to give them a bloody nose. So, they went and got all their friends (legal or not), and we all know what happened then.
 
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