NAA Black Widows and Multi-Masters - crummy sights

G

Gunner54

Inactive
Has anyone modified their factory sights for better visibility?

I have the NAA Multi-Master 4" barrel in 22 Magnum. In anything but direct sunlight, I find the sights unusable, especially in indoor ranges. The front sight is almost the width of the slot in rear sight, and if properly aligned on target it takes very bright lighting to see that you've got the sights on target. The overwhelming majority of self defense situations will NOT occur in bright sunlight.

This is an accurate gun with the 4" barrel, and with newer high performance 22WMR ammo, packs quite a punch. Muzzle velocity right about what velocity from a Rifle would be at 100 yards, and that will blow up a squirrel so bad it's impossible to eat the meat. With a head shot at 10-20 ft, the bad guy would never know if he got hit with a .22 or an RPG. But you have to HIT THE TARGET. Better sights are necessary for training if you're ever going to be even halfway accurate shooting without them. I'm looking at pulling my sights and machining down the front blade, and using some florescent paint to enhance visibility on both sights. Maybe opening up the slot in the back sight also.

The Laserlyte Venom laser for these guns is one solution, but there are so many reports of reliability problems with these that you had better have decent iron sights also.

The XS Sights Big Dot Tritium sights that NAA now offers on the 1" NAA Pug would be great, but they won't fit - the sights wedge bases are far too small for the grooves in the MM and Black Widow.

Ideas, anyone?
 
This is a bit of an assumption on my part, but have you measured the dovetails on the black widow? Calipers should do the trick. That would give you the dovetail size you need to purchase some aftermarket sights. XS makes good sights, but as much fuss as they make about their accuracy, they're really built for speed.

Call a couple of sight makers and see what they offer. Chances are, you'll have to reduce the sight width to make them fit. From my very limited experience with NAA, they'll probably respond to an email fairly quickly to answer the question of dovetail size. You'll probably have to do some research.

Also, have you considered drifting the front blade out, reducing its width (file, etc.), rebluing it, and adding a gold bead a la McGivern?
 
Chewie146, you were reading my mind!

The the sight bases measure .402" at the bottom of the taper, and .378" across the barrel; and I was considering calling XS Sights tomorrow to see what they might have that might be possible to rework. A real madcap idea would be to buy another set of NAA sights to cut off bases with the idea of mounting other sights on the stock NAA bases - Brownell's Acraglas epoxy would probably hold up, but making the cuts for even semi-alignment would be a bear.

Where can I find the gold bead a la McGivern?
 
How thick is the front sight? Also, I've had crappy luck with glue on sights. Read that either way. I don't like it. The gun is stainless, so good luck with solder. That works best with blued guns, in my experience. If the front sight is thick enough, and you have access to a drill press or a steadier hand than I, you could modify a shotgun bead to work. You could thread one in or press one in. Either way, it would be a lot easier to start making phone calls to sight makers to see what they have.

I agree with you on lasers. I don't like batteries. Not a single one of my guns has anything battery operated attached to it. The McGivern style gold bead sights are pretty common, but your sight height may be an issue. Do some measurements, and maybe I can do a little research and see what we can find. If you have success, I've had a hankering for another NAA. Gun fever has gripped me, and now that my 9-year-old has taken a really solid interest in hunting, the NAA is what I can probably afford on my want list.

Don't be afraid to contact NAA either. The first time I contacted them, I was shocked at the response time. 1 day. It was never more than 3. I haven't had an NAA in about 4 years, though. My first question was regarding work hardening life expectancy of the leaf spring.
 
With front sight thickness, if you're referring to the vertical blade, it's an untapered whopping .140" thick, square cut. Over 1/3 of the width of the top rail of the gun, which is 3/8".

I've used every adhesive and epoxy ever made; and that Brownell Acraglass outclasses them all - best of anything short of welding, which I don't have access to. If you'd ever tried to glass bed a rifle with it as I have, you'd know what I mean- very tricky to get the action out in time before it's a permanent part of the stock. We are only talking about .22 Magnum after all; with heavier calibers I'd be a lot more concerned. Cutting and shaping that hard metal of the sights to get a proper fit for the glued joint is a bigger problem.

I do have a drill press, but it's not precise enough anything that small that had to be screwed in.

The particular Venom Laser from Laserlyte for the NAA guns is just flat cheapo - not only unreliable, it's also non-adjustable and it's reported by some users as so far off that a heart shot would make for a clean miss at 15 feet. On some NAA guns you have to send them back to the factory for modification for the Venom to fit right - I just sent NAA a e-mail on that issue against my serial number. Even to try one would give you a 50:50 chance of having to get at least one replacement immediately after purchase, as in DOA out of the box. Backup sight at best.

I've had good luck phoning North American with little to no wait on a support call; I've already had to return it once for mis-fires (dud rounds). I'm going to ask them about buying another set of sights for my gun to try the epoxy idea. And also call sight vendors as you suggested.
 
I think the BW sights are pretty decent - this is a small pocket gun, after all.

I can maintain good accuracy with the sights painted as shown below - a little red on the rear blades and bright green on the front.

eintro.jpg
 
Obambulate, you've taken a step in the right direction with the front sight, but in the low light conditions I ran into, the red on the rear wouldn't help at all. Granted, the NAA BW and MM have decent sights, but ONLY if you have fairly bright overhead light or are outside in daylight. Try turning your NAA BW 180 degrees in your photo and then look at the sights.

At a indoor shooting range this week, I ran into a low light condition with NO light directly overhead, with the brightest light coming from downrange (in front of me). This shadows both sights, the rear sight giving the most problems as the slot disappears until the front sight obscures the rear slot. With the NAA MM, at my arms length, the front sight fills the rear sight slot almost entirely, and both were black blobs. With my vision, that red paint would not show at all. Checking after I came home, the lighting condition at the range were identical to how I normally keep my TV room lit.

Granted, I'm in my late 50's and have the 'arms not long enough' age vision problem with astigmatism on top of that, making it harder to focus on the rear sight. But in my brightly lighted kitchen, I can easily see both sights on my NAA Mini as well as my Springfield XDS 9mm auto, which comes equipped with a red fiber optic front sight and a relatively wider rear sight slot straddled by white dots.

At the indoor range, I also had my Springfield XDS 9mm with me in addition to my NAA Mini-Master. The XDS rear sight also disappeared under those light conditions , though I could barely get a sight picture due to the red fiber optic front sight. No sight picture at all with my NAA Mini. Someone more simply equipped, say with a baseball bat, could clobber me while I was trying to sight in for a hit with either one.

The XDS has a lot of good 3rd party low light sights available, and I ordered a set of Tritium Diamond Speed Sights for it. But there are none available for our NAA minis, hence this thread.

If you check into actual self defense incidents, well over half occur in low light conditions. Checking around my own house showed me the light doesn't have to be that dim to cause sight problems with anything, and it's very severe with the black sights on our NAA minis.

Here's a shot of the Diamond Speed Sights in low light:
nxxq.jpg
 
Last edited:
The NAA sights are not stainless. Get a new front sight, file it to the thickness you want, and send it to me. I can hard-solder a gold ramp or gold bead on it for you.
 
There ya go! Hey Bill, I was referring to the barrel itself and soldering a new front sight on, but soldering the bead into the front sight would work.
 
Did NAA change something? I have a four inch Mini Master convertible and the front tight is totally flourescent orange. Top to bottom, side to side.

Gregg
 
I wouldn't overthink this. Most pocket guns have minimal sights, and many can be improved for low light conditions with a dab of bright paint. But in a self defense situation you probably won't get the opportunity for a well-aimed shot.

I would work on shooting without using the sights at all. You might have to make a shot from a weird angle, or you may not have time for a carefully aimed shot. You have to develop some accuracy under less than ideal conditions.
 
Bill's idea of soldering a gold bead into the factory front sight is indeed a great idea, especially after reading this: "Sights You Can See --" http://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?39-Sights-You-Can-See

I've contacted North American both requesting the sight dovetail dimensions, and about purchasing a new factory front sight for modification.

I still plan on making the rounds of 3rd party low light sight manufacturers for stock sights that could be altered to fit, using the measurements I've already made. If I hit a dry hole, I'll contact Bill about adding a gold bead to the factory sight. I'm also considering using bright fluorescent paints to furter enhance the sights - especially the rear sight.

I agree that I need to work on firing without using sights, but I need better sights to practice enough to gain that skill. That is impeded by the extreme shortage of 22WMR ammo right now. It can be had, but only a scalper prices of $35 or more for 50 rounds. Centerfire prices for rimfire ammo.
 
I agree that practicing without using the sights almost feels like wasting ammo, and I'm more aware than most that .22 WMR is the scarcest ammo of all. There's a guy in my local area begging to buy 100 rounds for $100 so he can take his sons shooting. So far, no offers.

You also need to think about HOW you will be using the sights. Will you bring the BW close to your face to line up the sights? I tend to do better extending my arm and shooting one-handed. It's like a flesh rifle - my hand is the receiver, my arm is the rifle stock, and neither wrist nor elbow moves, the whole "rifle" pivots from the shoulder.

Of course, I have no illusions that an attacker would allow me 3 feet of clear space to shoot in this manner. Therefore, I do try shooting without the sights, and the results are not always comforting.
 
Well, it's down to reworking factory NAA sights - I struck out on modifiable sights from 3rd party sight vendors. Ordered a new sight set from North American on Monday.

I've been shooting with the standard two handed Weaver stance, which does bring the sights closer to my face than one handed shooting, which I haven't tried yet, though I will now. Didn't even think of it, being focused on all the trouble I'm having with the sights on the thing.

I thought out the scenario where I'd use my NAA mini carefully before I bought it, including a lot of .22 ballistics research on barrel length, which is my I went a bigger gun to get the 4" barrel. Heck, with those NAA minis with only an inch or so of barrel, WMR is a waste - ballistics on par with .22LR. I'm intending a maximum engagement distance of 15-20ft and going for head shots. I've already had a custom holster made for this gun, which I'm working to mount on a standard ankle holster, where it will be invisible. Gives me the option of whether to engage or just leave the thing in it's holster if the odds don't look good. "Hey, look! I'm unarmed!"

Even my single stack 3.3" Springfield XDS is too bulky in a holster down my pants for me to be comfortable; though others obviously disagree. It would go into a coat pocket if I were expecting trouble, but am unlikely to CC it all the time. If I REALLY expect BIG trouble, I'll show up with a long gun, not a friggin pistol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top