Mythbusters: Shoot Em' Up Merry-Go-Round Myth

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Auto426

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I was just watching the latest episode of Mythbusters, and one of the myth's the team put to the test was that of the merry-go-round scene from the movie Shoot Em' Up. In that particular scene, Clive Own uses a Taurus 92 clone to shoot the railings on a merry-go-round, causing it to spin.

The problem I'm having here is that the Mythbusters seem to have gotten just about all of their gun facts wrong. They start off the testing by saying they need to use the gun from the movie, a "Glock". I had no clue Glock joined the 92FS clone market:

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Naturally, since we live in the real world, the 9mm Glock doesn't start the merry-go-round spinning. So next, they step up to a .44 Magnum, in the form of a Smith & Wesson 629-6 with a 4" barrel. Grant proceeds to wrist flick the cylinder closed in the next scene. :rolleyes: Bigger gun, same results.

However, the biggest issue I have is that they decided to step up the gun again, this time to a.... 1911? They stated that the ".45", as they called it, had 2000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and a muzzle velocity of around 1900 ft/sec IIRC. The gun they were using was a Springfield 1911, possibly a Professional or a Loaded model, with no comp on the barrel or anything special. Is it just me, or is this a little fishy? Can someone please direct me to these magical 2000 ft-lb .45's that fit in my 1911 and have the same recoil as a normal .45 ACP?
 
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Didn't see the episode... could they have had a .460 Rowland conversion? That wouldn't have 2000 ft-lbs, but it would be up in the Magnum levels.
 
1911 with a 460 Rowland conversion was exactly what I was thinking. And the Springfield is a good platform for the conversion. That gives 44Mag performance in a semi-auto. Not a step UP from a 44 Mag, however, as the show implied.

As to their Original Sin of calling it a Glock, it doesn't really matter much which platform you launch the round from, mostly its about the cartridge the barrel length. And Glock is the flashy name. Just like wrist-flipping the .44, it's about the ahhh factor.

Too bad they didn't try the .500 Mag!
 
If enough people point out their mistakes on the MB blog, they will revisit it on a later show. Unless they are sticking with a handgun, I would try a .45-70 lever gun...

Tony
 
I also instantly thought of a .460 Rowland conversion kit, but those usually include a barrel with a compensator, and the gun they were using didn't have one. The recoil also looked a lot lighter than the .44 Magnum revolver Grant was firing, so it's hard for me to believe it was a .460 Rowland.

Besides, the only .45 caliber handgun cartridges I can find that come in around 2000 lb-ft are the .454 Casull and the .460 S&W Magnum, both of which aren't going to be fired out of a 1911. The 460 Rowland doesn't even produce 1000 lb-ft, so saying 2000 lb-ft would still be wrong.

It seems to me that the most logical explanation is that their production team just isn't taking time to fact-check what they say in the show.
 
If enough people point out their mistakes on the MB blog, they will revisit it on a later show. Unless they are sticking with a handgun, I would try a .45-70 lever gun...
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I'm not really arguing with the experiment, because it turned out exactly like one would think. They used everything from handguns to 12 gauge slugs and a .50 BMG rifle. The weapons they tested did little more than blow holes through the pipes on top of the merry-go-round, and maybe move it an inch or two.

What I am having problems with is for the poor examples of weapon handling (Grant wrist flicking a real, functioning revolver closed) and the "facts" they were giving to back up their findings. I'm sure they will be called out for it, as there are a ton of devoted fans who follow each and every show and always scrutinize every detail of every test they perform.
 
What I am having problems with is for the poor examples of weapon handling (Grant wrist flicking a real, functioning revolver closed) and the "facts" they were giving to back up their findings.
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The incorrect citations need to be addressed. The wrist-flicking, however, is a non-issue. It may not be considered 'good form' by most gun owners, but it is not unsafe handling. You'll just wear it out, and get it out of time faster. If S&W built their 629 as strong as a Ruger, it would last even longer with wrist-flicking. ;)
 
No surprise that the Taurus was confused for a black plastic brick like the Glock. To the uninitiated, a 1911 = Glock, a Beretta 992FS = Glock, heck...they will even confuse a revolver for a Glock. It's the magical Glock coolaid. :D:D
 
No human fired gun is going to start it rotating, just like guns do not 'knock them off their feet' their is simply not enough momentum present in a bullet to overcome the inertia of a merry go round, let alone a person.
 
No human fired gun?

I wonder if a shotgun would have done it, using a bean-bag type round. Sounds like all the rounds used were penetrating types. Seems to me a non-penetrating round would impart more rotational force, albeit there wouldn't be lot of torque, it would probably move a merry-go-round at least a little bit.

Meanwhile, looked up some more data on the .460 Rowland. That would be more in the 800-900ft-lb category; also, as noted by Auto426, the Rowland requires a compensator, to keep the barrel from unlocking too early, while pressures are still high for the 1911 frame and slide. So, if the pistol in the episode had no compensator, it should not have been a Rowland; and even if it were a Rowland, the power would be nowhere near what they claimed.

Disappointing; I have come to expect more from the MB guys.
 
I wonder if a shotgun would have done it, using a bean-bag type round. Sounds like all the rounds used were penetrating types.
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NOT ENOUGH MOMENTUM.

Energy makes no difference, all that matters is momentum.
 
Not enough momentum?

Are you sure about that? If the recoil is enough to push a 200lb man back a couple of inches, or even an inch, it might have enough momentum to push a merry-go-round just a bit. In fact, it should, depending on the mass of the merry-go-round. I doubt it would move more than a few inches, but I bet it would move.

OTOH, rounds that bust through the metal would use up some energy on penetration, and retain some energy after busting through, so they would not transfer all momentum.

IE, (relatively) elastic collision vs (relatively) inelastic collision = different results.

Look at it this way, in terms of momentum, a 1oz bean-bag at 1600fps would have the same momentum as a 1lb bean-bag at 100fps, or a 100lb bean-bag at 1fps.

Assuming a 100lb merry-go-round, and a perfect transfer of momentum, that should impart a linear velocity of .5fps to the merry-go-round. (Minus momentum lost due to overcoming possible friction in the system; for argument's sake, we'll say the merry-go-round is polished and lubricated, with minimal friction.)

What probably happened with the rounds fired was that the pistol rounds lacked enough momentum to overcome friction even if they hadn't gone through-and-through. The shotgun and rifle rounds might have had enough to overcome friction and move the merry-go-round slightly, if they had not gone through-and-through.
 
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Don't know the movie and did not see the Myth Busters you are talking about but if you are talking about a typical 2 meter diameter play ground merry go round you are talking about 460 pounds empty weight at rest. Unless the bars of that merry go round are bullet proof and therefore transfer all energy into motion I call BS.

That is personal opinion not backed up by field tests done by myself or anybody else I know.
 
I'm glad someone else noticed the wrist flick too. My wife was looking at me a little weird when I started cussing. She got it after I told her why that was bad. Not unsafe, but not a good idea, especially with a cylinder that heavy.
 
That show needs M/Sgt. E. Alan Normandy, Chief Firearms Instructor back on the show as a tech advisor before someone knocks their eye out!

2000 ft. lbs :rolleyes:
 
Look, can we all agree that the actual factual CONTENT of the show is in fact utterly irrelevant? We don't care one tiny little bit about the myth or how they test it...we just want to see Kari Byron shooting guns and giggling. :D
 
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