my self defense chart. thi

G

griffin12aaa

New member
So i was bored today and came up with this chart. Its based on what many people think to be the king of stopping power.
The .357 magnum 125 grain JHP at 1400 to 1500 fps and the .45 acp 230 grain JHP +p at about 950 fps. So from this info i came up with this chart.
Basically if you want some thing heavier the 125 grains the fps has to drop 50fps for every 10 grains of weight. Let me know what you guys think.

I dont know much about 9mm and .40 but let me know how your load fits in this chart.

Let me know if this is something usefull to go by or not. Cant wait to read comments.
 
What's the old saying....
"When I think of stopping power, a bazooka comes to mind."
The stopping power of small arms, especially handguns, is kind of dismal as compared to what's out there.
 
Well... I must say that you're definition of the "king of stopping power" is a little bit subjective. I would say that Doubletap has a .44 magnum load that I wouldn't necessarily call the "king," but it comes a lot closer to the crown than any .357 or .45 offering. It can chuck a 240 grain projectile (a little bigger than the 230 grain pill that the .45 throws) at about 1450 FPS (about the same speed that a .357 can throw a bullet half the weight).

I do think I know where you're going... taking two very standard rounds that anyone would consider over "adequate" and drawing a linear weight/velocity comparison. Then, we could see where a 9mm or .40s&w falls on this linear chart. I can tell you that any 9mm will appear weaker on this chart. Some of the more stout .40 rounds will fall in line. 10mm will be a little more stout. The above .44 leans to the "way more powerful" side. Of course, that power takes it's toll on your wrist:D

interesting thought.
 
1)Stopping power is a myth, a fantasy, a fabrication of over-active imaginations.

2)Why on earth would I have to slow down a heavier bullet? Would not a 200gr at 1,450fps "beat" both a 225gr at 950fps and a 125gr at 1450fps?

3)I don't really know what your chart is supposed to show or what concept/physics/science it's based on?
 
I know havier and faster is always better but what im trying to say is if you go faster on heavy bullets its going to have too much penetration. So this chart (i think) shows the right amount of weight to speed ration.
 
I know havier and faster is always better but what im trying to say is if you go faster on heavy bullets its going to have too much penetration. So this chart (i think) shows the right amount of weight to speed ration.
Click to expand...

Now how would anybody come to that conclusion based on anything else you said above?

First the thread appears to be about stopping power.
Then it appears to be about reloading.
Now it appears to be about preventing overpenetration.

Wait, now I get it. You have equated stopping power with being where the bullet stops, LOL.
 
I still think this chart could be helpfull for people who live in populated areas like i do.

Thanks for the comments they were fun to read. Always interesting to see what you guys think. Thanks eveyone.
 
griffin12aaa said:
I still think this chart could be helpfull for people who live in populated areas like i do.
Click to expand...
Why? "Stopping power" is a myth and penetration in the human body is much more a result of bullet design than anything else: If you want to limit over-penetration you design the hollow-point to expand more. In fact, more velocity often means more expansion (and sometimes fragmentation), meaning higher-velocity loads can often penetrate LESS than lower-velocity ones.

And all those handgun loads will zip through multiple interior walls if that's what you're worried about.

We're not trying to be harsh here, but your chart doesn't seem like it's very helpful at all.
 
Your numbers for 357 are optimistic. Possible from 8" test barrels, but no where near what you'd get from real guns with 3-4" barrels that people actually use. Subtract about 200-250 fps from the 125 gr load.

Stopping power is determined by how many body parts are broken as the bullet passes through. There has been no math formula that will come close to predicting this. Too many factors. You can mathematically come up with numbers based on bullet speed, weight and to a point diameter. But the wild cards are placement, bullet construction, and the mental state of the person shot. Those 3 are far more important than the other 3 and don't fit well into math equations.

There are some folks who just refuse to stop. Even after hits that leave them dead on their feet some folks have been known to continue an attack for several seconds, even minutes. Hits that would normally put someone down instantly.
 
I know havier and faster is always better but what im trying to say is if you go faster on heavy bullets its going to have too much penetration. So this chart (i think) shows the right amount of weight to speed ration.
Click to expand...

What makes you say that? Pretty much all you did is for every +20gr you subtracted 100fps. What is your chart based on, have you done actual ballistic testing to confirm any of this, or is this just one giant theory? This also isn't taking into account bullet type. HP's wont penetrate as much as FMJ. Get a HP up to great enough speeds and it will fragment and penetrate less than it would at a lower velocity.

Basically if you want some thing heavier the 125 grains the fps has to drop 50fps for every 10 grains of weight.
Click to expand...

Again, according to who and what testing/study. I don't buy it one bit.

As others said, stopping power is a myth. A shot to the vitals with a .22 is far more effective than being gut shot with a .44 magnum. Shot placement trumps caliber every single time. For a SD round I am satisfied with something that has enough velocity for a HP round to expand reliably while having sufficient penetration. 9mm does this, which is why I am perfectly satisfied with the 9mm for a SD round.
 
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For a SD round I am satisfied with something that has enough velocity for a HP round to expand reliably while having sufficient penetration.
Click to expand...

If it does anything more than that, it's probably wasted energy ... usually amounting to no greater effect on the bad guy, and achieving only over-penetration.

Whether it's 9mm, 10mm, .38spl, .357mag, .357sig .40S&W or .45ACP ... not really important as long as it penetrates sufficiently to hit something vital, and expands to some degree reliably as a bonus.
 
Just to be contrary and stir the pot, I will defend the position of the OP.

While a big fast bullet will do more damage than a big slow bullet, the practical application of such is heavy recoil. And most folks probably could not handle the recoil of a 20 ounce .44 magnum. If they could, lightweight magnums would be more popular.

On the otherside of that coin, for everyone that suggest "stopping power is a myth", I'm sure all your handguns are .22, .22tcm, 5.7x28 etc. Why bother with more bullet weight when you can just up the velocity..

As I look at the numbers the OP posted, I see a pretty direct correlation to three calibers, the .357, 10mm, and .45 acp. The three calibers that are on the upper end of the controllability spectrum for average shooters in a service sized sidearm.

My humble belief is than more bullet weight or velocity would result in too much recoil to be effective for self defense for the average shooter, while reduction of bullet weight or velocity would reduce energy on the target too much to be AS effective.
 
Another large variable is barrel length. Some bullet weights do better in longer barrels. Some calibers do better in longer barrels. According to http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/ The 357 has less power in barrels shorter than 4" than a 40 S&W. (same manufacturer, same bullet weight).
4" and longer the 357 starts to shine.

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html Corbon 140 jhp 3" 1172 fps, 4" 1394 fps, 6" 1580 fps
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/40sw.html Corbon 140 DPX 3" 1190 fps, 4" 1236 fps, 6" 1328 fps

A lot of the one shot stops were fired from Police service weapons not 2" snubbies.

Muzzle energy graph
357 http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/357mag.html
40S&W http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/40sw.html
 
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OK, it's time for my "Short Form Bullistics Course":

Interior Ballistics (in the gun): Who Cares?
Exterior Ballistics (between gun and target): See above - Who Cares?
Terminal Ballistics (at the target): Shot Placement, Shot Placement, Shot Placement.

Here ends the Lesson -and that's no bull!

Put a .22 short right through the eye, into the brain, when you are cold, wet, sick, and the wind is blowing 60MPH in a dark ally, and you will win.
A miss with a .500 S&W - you lose.
 
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