My new co-worker is an Anti!!

D

Danger Dave

New member
I just found out yesterday that my new co-worker, who's just out of college (same school I went to 10 years ago) is anti-gun! He claims he's not anit-hunting (although he is a vegetarian), but that the second amendment was written so we could "defend ourselves against the British" (Isn't that a Rosie line???). I pointed out that it was a a garauntee that the power of government and revolution always stayed in the hands of the people. To which he said that our democracy had evolved to the point that armed revolution was unnecessary (??? - That threw me, I have to admit). He said that we just can't ban handguns, because the "wealthy" NRA has such a "stranglehold on the the Republican Party." And how the crime rates here are so much lower in England & Canada because they've banned handguns!!

Step 1:
I told him that the NRA has the influence it does because it represents a large number of voters, and it's not all that well-funded.
Then I told him about the rise in violent crimes in England and Australia - including "hot" burglaries (something that gives me the creeps) since they banned the guns - and emailed him a few articles from the London Times, etc.

Step 2:
Aside from convincing him that I'm not a psycho, what's next????

I didn't point out that I'm a firearms enthusiast - yet. I think I'll be dusting off my hat collection (NRA, IDPA, Master Cartridge, etc) soon, though... ;)
 
I'd say take it slow. Keep up the heat though, spoon feed him if you have to.

Ask him if he believes you have the right to use a gun to defend yourself from attack in your own house. (A "Yes" should follow.)
Ask him if he believes you have the right to use a gun to defend yourself from attack on your own property (land). (Again, a "Yes")
Ask him why those rights should cease when you cross the street to get your mail; or when you go for an evening walk in the neighborhood.

Best idea of all, not mine: Take him to do a little shooting.


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RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
You might also tell him that we DO NOT
have a Democracy in the U.S. We have a
Representative Republic; wellll, that's what
it's supposed to be.
Bob

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Illegitimi non Carborundum
NRA LIFER
 
Couple of point I would make. Yes, Britain and Canada have lower crime rates than US. But so do Israel & Switzerland, where everyone is armed.

Much US crime is related to drug use. That stat gets hidden way too much. It ain't the guns, its the drugs. Crime rate relates to drug use rate, not gun ownership rate. As evidence...

Cities & states with tightest gun control laws have highest rates of crime. Criminals prefer unarmed vitims.

Cities & states with CCW laws invariably see a drop in crime when the laws are passed, and maintain a lower crime rate than states without CCW laws. The possibility that the victim may be armed deters the criminal.

There's a famous study by a guy with good credentials calculating that if all states had CCW laws hundreds (or thousands?) fewer murders would take place each year. I'm sure that study is cited somewhere here.
 
Arguing the Revolt against the Government line is not an initial approach that works.

What works is the defense of self and family. This has been reviewed very ably on the board. You might search for it.

Then offer to take him to the range.

Ask him what he would do when a faced with a burglar with a knife and behind him (our boy) is a wife and baby.

That argument gets a foot in the door. After one buys the need for personal defense, you can mention how the government will deny you that privilege.

However, if the dude cannot answer "The Question" affirmatively (could you use deadly force to prevent grievous bodily harm?) then
it's hopeless.
 
Dave,

Some very good ideas listed above.
At least you're only dealing with a co-worker.
As I mentioned in my very first post here, I have to deal with a boss who's VERY anti.

Consider it a challenge and yourself lucky...

I do, and I'm not... ;)

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...defend the 2nd., it protects us all.
No fate but what we make...
 
Why dont you ask him to come shooting with you?
i've found that arguing the second is like arguing whose religion is the Truth...it converts no one.Ppl just dig in with their opinions.
Most ppl i know that hate guns have never shot them, or are afraid of them, or the type of people that have them.
I shoot twice a month, each time , I ask ppl in at my work or where I hang out if they'd like to come. I end up going with an eclectic group of five or more. Some have shot, some not...it wears on my barrels, and costs me in ammo BUT..
It brings shooting to a personal level, not something abstract. I've "converted" several people by doing this...they ask for a call when i'm going again..and I ask them to bring people who have never shot...and so it goes
Be nice ...ask...and dont give up on the first try...if ppl around your anti come in the next day and blab about how fun it was, you may get a convert yet..-johnny
 
Ditto to what mongrel says.

I've succeeded in converting most of my office simply by letting them know that I am a gun owner--I read gun mags on my lunch break and have a picture of a USP as my Windows wallpaper. This, of course, only works if you're not someone that people try to avoid for some reason. Invite him along next time you go to the gun shop or to the range. Don't even bother arguing politics. You will no sooner change him than he will change you.

Actually having the opportunity to handle and firearms is what changed me from being an anti.
 
Time to do some Searching and homework!

Hunt up the Websites for the Center for Disease Control and for the Bureau of Justice Statistics. You can get all manner of numbers on homicides, accidents, suicides. Data is organized by causes of death, age groups and ethnic groups. Trends and pattern data is available.

Make some "cheat sheets" which you can keep handy. Stuff like 1996, 138 kids from ages 0-14 died in gun accidents; 3,015 in motor vehicle accidents, and 981 drowned.

Like Non-suicides All Ages, firearms, 14,037; down from 18,253 in 1993.

Don't bring these up yourself; use them after some arbitrary statement which is mistaken and say, "Well, according to the CDC, you're factually incorrect. Actually, ..." (Or, "been given bad information.")

Don't cite the NRA; after using CDC data, comment that the NRA gets its data from the CDC (and FBI, etc.)

My 1996 data is from http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/osp/usmort.htm

Hope this helps, Art
 
If you can do it in a light way, I have had a little success with an attack line, but it depends on the situation. I might ask the guy why he wants to kill me, rape my wife and torture my children. He will obviously say (I hope) that he has no such intent. Then say that you are no threat to him, so if he is no threat to you, why does he want to take your guns.

A variation is to ask what you have done and why the state should seize your property. He may say that you haven't done anything, but we have to disarm the "others". "What others?" you ask innocently. Eventually, the anti-gunners get around to their real goal, which is disarming the blacks. Then you ask if they plan another Holocaust, and if not, why they want to disarm a minority group. Point out that German gun laws disarmed the Jews, and ask why the U.S. should follow Nazi ideas.

This wraps the poor guy around his own tree, so he comes off as the oppressor as well as racist, and anti-semitic to boot.

Jim
 
Don't bet on it being as easy as asking if he thinks you have the right to defend yourself in your house. If he believed that and was the least bit rational he'd be pro-gun. My quadmate told me, and I quote:
"No, of course you don't have the right to defend yourself if you have to kill somebody else to do it!"
(Me, incredulously) "You mean I'm obligated to die, and let my family die?"
"Yeah, if that's the only way to keep from killing somebody!"

Plan on working on this guy slowly for awhile.
 
Thanks for all the good ideas! Keep 'em coming!

I did point point out that we live in a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy (I wouldn't want to live in a "mob rules" society - I think even a dictatorship would be preferable to that!).

As far as the self defense bit, I think even that will take some doing. He seemed to think that it was "okay" if a burgler came into his house and took all his stuff, as long as they left him alive. I tried to make it clear that if that situation occured, it wouldn't be his choice about who lived or died, but the decision of a stranger who obviously had no respect for the rights or property of another...

The whole "2nd Amendment is just for fighting the British" kinda blew me away, but I guess I've heard more about the reasons behind the Bill of Rights than most. All too often, what people have been told or believe is more important to them than the truth.

Thanks!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thanks for all the good ideas! Keep 'em coming!
[/quote]

You may want to point out that there has been almost 250 years of individual legal gun ownership in the United States.

Also, mention or show him John Lott's statistics on self defense usage.

But remember, you're at work...
Bosses hate controversy...boils the waters, so to speak. Definately stay calm...let your coworker get hysterical, not you.
 
You have to have the personality substrate to build upon. Some dudes are just "sheeple".

They can't conceive of using a firearm and
don't have the active defender nature.

They are natural fleeers (who who wants to flee) or hiders.

NO argument will convince them.

That's why I probe with protecting the family first.
 
The second amendment was written so we could "defend ourselves against the British"

That's funny since the second amendment was ratified almost 25 years after the "Declaration of Independence."

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Gun control started the Revolutionary War!..."itcta alea est"
 
I work with a liberal freak too that says he's not anti. What's worse, the freak has a bachelor's degree in political science and think he knows everything. Sometimes it becomes very difficult to work with him and his smug attitude when the subject of gun control comes up.

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Gun control started the Revolutionary War!..."itcta alea est"
 
My answer to the smug.

One day we might be going to dinner together.
We go to the parking lot and go to our separate cars. From across the lot, I
hear a scuffle and see you being beaten and
mugged. I pledge to do nothing. I will go
call the police.

If we are approached together, if possible I
will inform the mugger that I am armed and you are not. I will make no move to help you.

If by chance, your wife is being followed and
she remembers where my house is, I will not open the door for her. I will just take notes
for the police artist.

That once shocked a smug dude. Can't guarantee it will work on all.
 
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