My muzzle-loading inquiries are bearing fruit, but also more questions!!

P

Pond James Pond

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I have found a shop that may be able to ship a muzzle loader to me.

I have found a muzzle-loader rifle that I like the look of and could potentially afford (Pedersoli Country Hunter Rifle Flintlock in .50 cal). I am going to write to the company to confirm that indeed it is based on a pre-1870 design as required by my local laws.

And now I have found a supplier of muzzle-loader ball projectiles!! The question now is what size do I need for the .50 cal Pepersoli above. Obviously, the answer is .50 cal, but I have also learnt since I started shooting that .38 is .357 and .44 is .429.

So what is the exact size that I would need in a .50cal muzzle-loader?

The supplier in question stocks .450, .454, .457 and .464. That is it.
Would any of those suit or are they for a .45cal M-L?
(I hope they do, because that is about the only Pedersoli I can afford on that website!!)

Also what other bits would I need before I can fire a shot? (experience has told me that I can't assume I can find stuff, so buying a gun before I am sure of a supply of consumables is folly.)

I've read about bits called patches, then there's the flint, and of course the powder (goodness knows where I'm going to find that!!)
 
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I used a Lee .490 round ball mold for my 50s, unlike blackpowder pistols, rifles use a patch around the ball, so the ball has to be slightly smaller than the bore, patches can be found in different thicknesses.
 
Pedersoli says to use a .490 round ball. The rifle is pre 1870. Also you have
a very fast twist for round ball. So keep powder charges on the light side say
30 to 50 grs.
 
Right, so far I know that choosing the rifle will be quite tricky and price won't be the only consideration if I need to factor in the twist rates too!!

On top of that, unless I can find .490 balls, I may find I can't afford the rifles that I could buy balls for!

This is a bit like tight-rope walking...

OK, so next question.

If I want a rifle that could potentially be used for boar hunting (gotta check that is permitted) what minimum calibre can I get away with and what twist rate/number range should I be looking at?
 
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Send pictures when possible !!!

.490 ball with .015 patch (or smaller).
Click to expand...
That is usually the good start point that you will have to evaluate as you progress. Later you "might" want to go to a .495.

I have found a shop that may be able to ship a muzzle loader to me.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why not as I have had a number shipped to me direct, from manufacturers and private sellers. ... ;)

The 1:48 twist doesn't bother me one bit and actually is more adaptable for shooting conicals than the RB. I am currently working the bugs out of a new shot-string that shoots a mini-ball better, at longer ranges, than my RB's. Actually, I can shoot just about anything with my 1:48. ... ;)

Keep us posted and;
Be Safe !!!
 
IMO that twist rate is too fast for round balls. I would go with a Lee R.E.A.L or Hornady Great Plains conical. That way for hunting you can bump the powder up to 90 grains or so. Pedersoli lists the twist as 1:34






;
 
design

Being as the percussion cap was itntroduced in the 1820's and widely available by the 1830's and thus the Flintlocks were being phased out of production,
you can be sure the one you are looking at was based on a design at least 50 yrs earlier than 1870.
As to ball and patch combination, that will be a trial and error.
What works for some people and some guns may not be right for you.
Start with a .490 or .495 ball. try a .010 .015 and .018 patch.
If none of those work, then try a different size ball and then the patches again.
Patch lube can be a lot of things.
spit, plain vegetable grease, animal fat, commercial lubes and blend of beeswax and tallow ( lard).

Average powder grains to start with and stay with until you fire enough rounds with one ball and patch combo to be sure you are consistently hitting where you aim would be 65 to 70 gr of FFG powder.
As to the twist rate and diameter Pedersoli site recommends the .490 round ball.

Your powder can be real black powder in FFg for the main charge, or a substitute Pyrodex or triple 7. However they can be a bit harder to ignite reliably in a flint lock.
In the pan you would want FFFFg black powder.
However, FFFg will work in both if you are having problems locating powders.

Instead of locking in on Pedersoli. see if a dealer can get you a Lyman in flint or percussion. Percussions were also being phased out of production by the 1870 time period. Their design date dates back to 1820- 1863 or so.

His difficulty is he is in Estonia. more restrictive on firearms than here.
 
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Thanks for the summary DD4'. By FFg and FFFg, are you referring to some kind of grade of powder in terms of size, or sensitivity?

And can percussion caps be substituted with anything else such as primers or something.? If so, then it would make one component in M-L shooting easier to find, if I decided to go with the more reliable cap ignition method.
 
One size does not fit all !!!

And can percussion caps be substituted with anything else such as primers or something.? If so, then it would make one component in M-L shooting easier to find, if I decided to go with the more reliable cap ignition method.
Click to expand...
Yes and there are four primary "Priming" methods; Flints, Caps and 209primers. Oh, there are other but they are more specialized, including pistol and rifle cartridge primers, that require adapters. Even though the cost keeps going up, availability is good. ..... :)

An important and over looked point, is that maximum "spark" does not always relate to max performance. There are always trade-offs. .... ;)
Also, the Electra is/was great in theory but not so good in practice. ... ;)

Be Safe !!!
 
powder

Thanks for the summary DD4'. By FFg and FFFg, are you referring to some kind of grade of powder in terms of size, or sensitivity?

And can percussion caps be substituted with anything else such as primers or something.? If so, then it would make one component in M-L shooting easier to find, if I decided to go with the more reliable cap ignition method.
__________________
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for our use in these vintage Black powder guns, black powder is graded based on the granulation size.
1F (fg) mostly cannons
2F (FFG) normally rifles and some single shot pistols normally 50 cal and larger
3F (FFFG) normally rifles and single shot pistols and revolvers 45 - 44 cal
4F (FFFFG) normally in the flash pan of a flintlock
sometimes 4F will be used in 45 cal,44, 36, 32 and 31 cal rifles and pistols and revolvers. if 3F is not available.
However the amount will have to be adjusted
Same with 3F sometimes it will be used in 50 cal same reason
Also the common substitutes use the same basic grading.

In percussion caps
Nominal sizing is #10 #11 #11 magnum and musket cap
rifles and single shot pistols in the 45, 50. 54 caliber range will normally come with a #11 nipple you can also use the #11 magnum cap on it.

You can change the standard nipple out to what is called a hotshot nipple.
Supposedly delivers the spark to the powder better.

Or you can change out to a musket cap nipple. but care must be used .
some musket nipples are too tall, and the hammer cup too small to sit down on the musket cap.
Either case you must match your thread sizing.

There is also an adapter available to allow the use of #209 shotgun primers.
Not sure about pistol or rifle primers.
 
There is also an adapter available to allow the use of #209 shotgun primers.
Click to expand...

That would solve a lot of potential problems. For me, ignition (apart from flint) and powder will be the hardest to acquire due to shipping restrictions, so finding a means of relying on something I know I can get is preferable.
 
But the 209 primer adapter definitely isn't pre-1870 design. You would be modifying the rifle to use them. Is that still legal there? If so, you would need to get a percussion rifle. Pedersoli makes 209 shotgun primer adapters to replace standard percussion nipples. I have two of these on my Pedersoli double 10 gauge.

Here's an example: Cabela's
 
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