My First time Gunshot Wound Experience

C

chiz45

New member
Up until yesterday afternoon, i had never seen anyone shot before, at least not up close. anyway, yesterday, a client came into my office seeking legal advice. he and his girlfriend were just shot a week prior, with what the police determined was a 9mm. My client was a large fellow, say around 6'2", 230 lbs or so. he had a single entry wound to his right shoulder, which looked like a small dent in his arm, with bruising. The exit wound had a little more ragged flesh, but was in the process of healing, and the diameter was not that much larger. Apparently, the round passed through him, and hit his girlfriend in her calf. He took another round in the hip, which passed through his buttock. They both limped into my office for the meeting, not more than a week after the incident.

This was a pretty graphic way of evaluating the effectiveness of ball ammo. His wounds were through major areas of his body, even hitting a major artery in his leg--and he is still hobbling around.

Of course, with proper shot placement, the situation would probably be different.

I am not sure what I am looking for writing this, but just wanted to share this incident for CCW and ammo selection discussion.

chiz45
 
Weird isn't it? But, I don't really think it's an ammo selection issue.

I'm always telling my associates when coaching them on using firearms for self-defense... bullets are just tiny little pieces of metal that fly through the air very fast. What they do to a body depends almost entirely on what they encounter during their travels through the body. How the body reacts depends almost entirely on the physical, psychological and chemical state of the body. There is also some luck involved and I think the cycles of the moon have something to do with it.

Too many people I know see a firearm as some sort of magic talisman whose mere presence will ward off evil. They think a pull of the trigger will instantly destroy evil. I wish some of these people could meet your client. They might take their training more seriously.
 
Following up on ellsworthtoohey's post - that's why part of my bedside ready kit is a 4xD-cell Maglite.
 
JimR,

I currently have a 3 D-cell MagLite in my car and beside my bed.

Should I consider upgrading to the 4 D-cell version? Do I have to apply for a permit?

:D
 
Kamakaze,

A 4D cell maglite is considered a "High capacity assault light". The FBA (flashlight & batons agency) requires you to fill out form 7734. If it exceeds the 1,000,000 candle light power limit, and/or has the selectable power switch you then need to pay the $100 tranfer tax and fill out the additional paperwork that they require.

After a 2 week waiting period, during which you need to take the required 24 hr maglite handling safety course and your invasive anal exam, if you can prove probable cause, and only after proving that you have the approved safety measures installed in your home, including the switch safety lock that was provided my the Maglite manufacturer, will they allow you to take your 4D cell maglite home.

After all, we wouldn't want someone to put their eye out!

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...
 
Motto of the original post is that "placement is the key". A .22 through the eye socket and into the brain does way more than a .44 Mag that just makes a couple of holes in the guy's gluteus. Ball through the heart kills quicker than hollow point through the leg.

My wife took the Sheriff's CCW Safety course last weekend. They showed a police video (actual traffic stop gone bad) where a trooper hit a guy five times with a .357 -- but not in vital areas. The guy shot the trooper AFTEr being hit 5 times, and by luck or design the shot went into the armhole of the trooper's vest and killed him.

Practice is essential. I know people who buy a gun for home defense, load it with whatever ammo the shop gave them and stick it in a drawer without ever firing it. Dumb.

(I'm proud of Thelma, BTW. At the CCW course she shot the tightest group in the class. Her one flyer was low center -- the instructor said it was Ok because a bad guy shot in the gonads would likely go down anyway. :) )
 
Please note. You CAN possess a 4cell or even a 5cell light if it has been demilled by an approved contractor and is certified under PL 66666. This procedure effectively precludes the insertion of any batteries. The only exception is for black-clad LEO's in the exercise of their duties.
The light must be registered as a high capacity bludgeon.

Yes I know I'm sick.

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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
You lightweights (pun unintended). I have a 6 cell MagLite under my bed. :D

Since it's a pre-ban flashlight, is it worth 8 times what I paid for it?

[This message has been edited by jcoyoung (edited September 13, 2000).]
 
No One NEEDS a 4, 5, or 6 cell flashlight.
or any of those cheap 99 cent "saturday night special" flashlights. just sit tight, the sun will be back up tomorrow. jj

Back to the gunshot wound. a friend of mine was shot in the shoulder with a ~9mm/.38 cal handgun in a truly random act of violence - walking on a sidewalk in the wee hours in a nice, quiet subdivision(about 30 minutes before his step-dad -ret. drill instructor- goes for daily jog). The bullet holes were both small, however the bullet hit a bunch of nerves, and he lost control of his arm. He said when he was shot, he did not hear or feel it, but his arm began involuntarily flailing about. He grabbed his arm with his other hand and then walked about 300 yards to his house, where he met his step-dad at the door. Step-dad got the bleeding stopped & took him to the hospital. It took a few months of rehab to get his arm useful again, and he recovered fully. for such a small hole, he had a pretty painful recovery.

through hunting, I've seen alot of bullet wounds on game. My typical impression of most handgun wounds is: wow, is that all?
rifles: OH My God!
 
Good points on bullet placement and chemical state of the body. I found this interesting passage on killing power in a 1953 Outdoors book:

"There is the Wyoming guide who once killed a 700-lb grizzly bear with a single shot from a .25 auto pistol - one of those little handbag guns with a two-inch barrel, useful mostly for making noise. One shot to the brain dropped the grizzly immediately. And there's the old hillbilly who never used anything but a .22 special (22 WMR?) to hunt deer. He never had one get away.

On the other hand, I saw an expert rifleman shoot the lower part off the head of a jack rabbit with a 45-70(!) and we had to trail that rabbit half a mile before we could dispatch him. And an old railroad detective I know was once in a fracas in which he received a 45-90(!!) slug right through the neck . He didn't know anything had happened until the fight was all over."

Musta been a LOT of adrenalin flowing in that last one. The 45-90 has a 300 gr slug gallumping along at about 1500 fps.
 
Remember, new legislation is being brought forward to deal with the new "Pocket Rocket" flashlights. These tiny lights, some under four inches, are designed so a Criminal can easily hide one on his/her body. Some even fit on a KEY CHAIN!!! :) Yet they can be 10x more powerful then a "normal flashlight".



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"Take your weapon with reluctance. Draw it with dread. Grieve for those who fall to your bullets. But make every shot count."-Robert Shea
 
Chiz45, are you able to elaborate on the situation that led to this particular incident and what happened?? Kinda wondering. J.B.
 
I've seen a few hundred gun shot wounds counting ones at the scene immediately follow the fact, two the I received myself, wounds inflicted on others by myself and fellow officers, wounds on deceased victims (I've attended over 100 autopsies which involved gun shot victims.) and varous animals.
The one constant that I have observed is that there is no constant when gun shot wounds are involved.
I was dispatched to a shooting one night in KC. Upon arrival at the scene there was a young (17) black man running around his house shouting about the shooting. There was no blood but an obvious bullet hole in the heavy stained glass in the entry door to the home. I finally had to physically restrain him to ascertain who had been shot. It was him. Someone had rang the door bell. Upon bending down to look through the door the perpitrator had fired a single shot through the glass. The bullet, a .45 ACP, had entered his eye socket, traveled inside his cranium and lodged next to his spinal column in the back of his neck. Upon close examination there was a visible "bulge" in the base of his neck. He was transported to the hospital where a small incision was made, the bullet removed and he was sent home. I don't think he ever realized how lucky he was.
I, myself, was shot one night in the sternum from a distance of only a few inches by a 9mm. It bounced off. I know how lucky I was.

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
Just exactly what were they doing when this occurred? I question this because the bullet passed through his shoulder and hit her in the calf. Interesting body orientations come to mind. ;-)
 
I think David's story concerning a video his wife was shown referes to the Trooper Coates shooting in the Carolinas. What makes the story even more amazing is that the caliber of the weapon that killed him was a .22LR, that did, as stated defeat his body armor by virtue of it passing through the armhole and into the Troopers heart. For what it's worth, in any lethal force encounter my motto would always be "keep squeezing 'till they stop wheezing". This is just one reason that I have always considered the standard 9mm para. round used in conjunction with a gun that has hi-caps to be the absolute weapon of choice for PD.

Mike H
 
Growing up in Africa and Latin America, I got a chance to see quite a few bullet wounds and have a few of my own scars. I can say this, no entry/exit wound is the same. Sometimes, they surprise you. When I was 16, driving along a jungle path in Guatamala with some buddies a .223 round hit my friend square in the forehead. Left a neat, blue hole but then from his hairline back there was nothing left. I got hit once with a .22LR in the meaty part of the uppershoulder and it made a nasty jagged hole without exiting. But then I've also had a thru and thru from a 9mm in the thigh that looked like someone had just drilled a hole with a pen. For some reason the .22 hurt ten times more than the 9mm.
 
Gunslinger, was that .45 ACP ball, or was it one of those fancy, deathraylike hightech hollowpoints that "produce 90+% one shot stops" according to the 'authorities?' Or, was it one-of-those-overpenetrating-full-metal-jacket-slugs-that-are-practically-guaranteed-to-kill-the-neighbors-next-door-after-having-passed-thru-one-or-two-bodies??-?
 
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