My first S&W revolver!
- Thread starter jwise
- Start date
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
The Model of 1902, 1st Change, serial numbers ran from 33,804 through 62,499. This particular version of the Model of 1902 was only produced from 1903 - 1904. This is long before heat treated cylinders, so be very careful what you feed it. Only mild target loads, nothing hot. Be sure the cylinder locks up nice and tight before you shoot it.
It looks like you got a nice set of hard rubber grips with it, be careful, they are very brittle.
With all Hand Ejectors, check to see that all the serial numbers match. The SN on the butt is the serial number of record. The SN should appear in three additional places; the flat on the underside of the barrel, the rear of the cylinder, and the underside of the extractor star. The numbers should all agree with the SN on the butt, otherwise the gun did not leave the factory with that particular part.
The lockwork inside this model is a bit different than the Model of 1905 and all the guns that followed it. In addition to that, there is no hammer block inside. The hammer should rebound after every shot, removing the firing pin from the primer of any round under it, but caution should be exercised if fully loading the gun with a live round under the hammer.
The Model of 1902, 1st Change, serial numbers ran from 33,804 through 62,499. This particular version of the Model of 1902 was only produced from 1903 - 1904. This is long before heat treated cylinders, so be very careful what you feed it. Only mild target loads, nothing hot. Be sure the cylinder locks up nice and tight before you shoot it.
It looks like you got a nice set of hard rubber grips with it, be careful, they are very brittle.
With all Hand Ejectors, check to see that all the serial numbers match. The SN on the butt is the serial number of record. The SN should appear in three additional places; the flat on the underside of the barrel, the rear of the cylinder, and the underside of the extractor star. The numbers should all agree with the SN on the butt, otherwise the gun did not leave the factory with that particular part.
The lockwork inside this model is a bit different than the Model of 1905 and all the guns that followed it. In addition to that, there is no hammer block inside. The hammer should rebound after every shot, removing the firing pin from the primer of any round under it, but caution should be exercised if fully loading the gun with a live round under the hammer.
There should be no problem shooting that gun with standard .38 Special (no +P or +P+, please), but I strongly recommend leaving the sideplate on and not messing with the lockwork. I disagree with Driftwood; the lockwork is not a bit different, it is a lot different from the later guns, and more complicated with scads of tiny parts. There are NO (as in ZERO) parts available, so breaking anything is disaster.
Jim
Jim
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Why not just leave it the way it is? I have lots of old guns that are lacking any finish. It gives them character. If you refinish it, it is just another refinished gun. And it is tough to find a refinisher who does not over polish it, dish out the screw holes, remove half the markings, and soften all the edges that are supposed to be sharp.
I bought this old Colt last year, about the same age as your Smith. Not a drop of blue left on it anywhere. I wouldn't dream of refinishing it.
I bought this old Colt last year, about the same age as your Smith. Not a drop of blue left on it anywhere. I wouldn't dream of refinishing it.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Have you ever taken the side plate off of a S&W?
This may sound like an antagonistic question, but it's a serious one. On the picture of the Colt (or even the S&W I suppose), what sort of treatment over a hundred-plus years removes -ALL- the finish/bluing everywhere visible on the revolver?
It's not like holster wear, where we see repeated movement on certain exterior parts of the gun against any slightly abrasive finish. It seems to be gone EVERYWHERE, as if someone rubbed it with a dry towel... but did that towel rubbing for two hours every day of every year for 20 years.
Was the bluing simply not capable of lasting?
Was the revolver left or forgotten in some kind of wet environment?
How does almost 100% of the finish, even in nooks & crannies just go away?
It's not like holster wear, where we see repeated movement on certain exterior parts of the gun against any slightly abrasive finish. It seems to be gone EVERYWHERE, as if someone rubbed it with a dry towel... but did that towel rubbing for two hours every day of every year for 20 years.
Was the bluing simply not capable of lasting?
Was the revolver left or forgotten in some kind of wet environment?
How does almost 100% of the finish, even in nooks & crannies just go away?
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
I am not a chemist, nor an expert on gun bluing. But I can tell you that yes, some of the blueing done in the past was not as robust as modern blue. I used to have a Cimarron Cattleman with what they called the 'charcoal blue'. It was a throwback to some of the buleing done in the 1800s. It was a brilliant robin's egg blue, not the dark, almost black blue that we are used to today. And it was not robust. Within one year, the blue was completely gone from the backstrap of that gun, simply removed by the sweat of my palm. The backstrap had turned battleship gray. Probably it would have lasted longer if I had rubbed the gun down with an oily rag every time I put it away, but I didn't. By the same token, the blue on my Ruger Blackhawk that I bought brand, spanky new in 1975 has not worn at all, and it does not get rubbed down with oil either.
I have that old Colt in hand right now. I guess I exaggerated a bit when I said it has no finish left on it. It does. First off, Colt frames are Case Hardened, not blued. And the brilliant colors of Case Hardening will fade over time. That is a simple fact, the colors are beautiful, but they are not very robust. The colors can also be obliterated by strong chemicals, and even sunlight. The colors on the frame of that old Colt are almost gone, just some mottled remnants of the original case colors. The backstrap and trigger guard still have plenty of blue on them, except over 100 years of handling has turned much of that blue to a dark gray. Really a combination of blue being worn off and the underlying steel oxidizing. Not bright rust red, iron oxide can also appear dark gray. Which is the case with most of the rest of the gun; the barrel, ejector housing, and cylinder. A dark battleship gray where most of the blue has worn off and been replaced by dark oxide. Except in the cylinder flutes. Plenty of blue in the cylinder flutes, because they are protected from handling.
In fact, most of the time when you see a worn old gun, it is not 'in the white'; the color of fresh, unblemished steel. Mostly they are a dark gray, resulting from oxidation of the surface from years of handling. If a gun has been really mistreated, there will be pitting on the surface.
By the way, the reason nickel plating was so popular in the late 1800s; many companies produced more nickel plated guns than blued, is because nickel plate was more robust than some of the blues being used at the time.
I am not a chemist, nor an expert on gun bluing. But I can tell you that yes, some of the blueing done in the past was not as robust as modern blue. I used to have a Cimarron Cattleman with what they called the 'charcoal blue'. It was a throwback to some of the buleing done in the 1800s. It was a brilliant robin's egg blue, not the dark, almost black blue that we are used to today. And it was not robust. Within one year, the blue was completely gone from the backstrap of that gun, simply removed by the sweat of my palm. The backstrap had turned battleship gray. Probably it would have lasted longer if I had rubbed the gun down with an oily rag every time I put it away, but I didn't. By the same token, the blue on my Ruger Blackhawk that I bought brand, spanky new in 1975 has not worn at all, and it does not get rubbed down with oil either.
I have that old Colt in hand right now. I guess I exaggerated a bit when I said it has no finish left on it. It does. First off, Colt frames are Case Hardened, not blued. And the brilliant colors of Case Hardening will fade over time. That is a simple fact, the colors are beautiful, but they are not very robust. The colors can also be obliterated by strong chemicals, and even sunlight. The colors on the frame of that old Colt are almost gone, just some mottled remnants of the original case colors. The backstrap and trigger guard still have plenty of blue on them, except over 100 years of handling has turned much of that blue to a dark gray. Really a combination of blue being worn off and the underlying steel oxidizing. Not bright rust red, iron oxide can also appear dark gray. Which is the case with most of the rest of the gun; the barrel, ejector housing, and cylinder. A dark battleship gray where most of the blue has worn off and been replaced by dark oxide. Except in the cylinder flutes. Plenty of blue in the cylinder flutes, because they are protected from handling.
In fact, most of the time when you see a worn old gun, it is not 'in the white'; the color of fresh, unblemished steel. Mostly they are a dark gray, resulting from oxidation of the surface from years of handling. If a gun has been really mistreated, there will be pitting on the surface.
By the way, the reason nickel plating was so popular in the late 1800s; many companies produced more nickel plated guns than blued, is because nickel plate was more robust than some of the blues being used at the time.
J,
Your posts are moderately confusing.
The gun is not a good candidate as a shooter for the parts availability reason given, and if you alter the finish you'll destroy any collector value it may have now.
If you break something, same on collector value.
What did you buy it for?
Denis
Your posts are moderately confusing.
The gun is not a good candidate as a shooter for the parts availability reason given, and if you alter the finish you'll destroy any collector value it may have now.
If you break something, same on collector value.
What did you buy it for?
Denis
Nickel Plated
New member
Maybe someone dropped it in a bowl of vinegar. That's a real good way to unblue a gun.
highpower3006
New member
Given the proper level of abuse, nearly any finish will succumb in time. There are scads of old nickel finished guns with varying levels of nickel flaking off. I believe it starts with either holster wear finally going through the plating or a scratch. Once moisture gets under the plating it will start to come off.
That particular gun has had a 110 years of neglect to deal with. Although, outside of the finish, it looks pretty good.
If it was mine I would just keep it as is and if I decided to shoot it, it would be very sparingly.
I have a '67 vintage Model 15 that has been so badly neglected that it makes that one look like a babied safe queen. I rescued it from the previous owner just to get it away from him. After years of being left in a damp holster near the ocean there is probably only about 10% of the original finish left.
That particular gun has had a 110 years of neglect to deal with. Although, outside of the finish, it looks pretty good.
If it was mine I would just keep it as is and if I decided to shoot it, it would be very sparingly.
I have a '67 vintage Model 15 that has been so badly neglected that it makes that one look like a babied safe queen. I rescued it from the previous owner just to get it away from him. After years of being left in a damp holster near the ocean there is probably only about 10% of the original finish left.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yes, there are parts available for an S&W that old.
But finding them means selling your soul to one of the hard-core S&W collectors/restorers who has amassed a supply of parts for the early guns.
Ask me know I know....
But finding them means selling your soul to one of the hard-core S&W collectors/restorers who has amassed a supply of parts for the early guns.
Ask me know I know....
Why I bought it...
I was purchasing an FN Hi-Power (my first), and saw this classic K frame .38spl that was waning away in the display case with a paltry sum on its price tag. I didn't think this old girl deserved to spend her golden years this way.
The collector value isn't there, as the finish is deplorable, and I believe the price reflected this.
I didn't know much about this revolver (see original post), but the cylinder locked up really tight and I figured it would be fun to shoot such and old gun. If it could be cleaned up and reworked/refinished, I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
However, if I can't rework it, and it can't handle a steady diet of .38spl, I'll just clean it up as best as I can and take it to the range with cowboy loads.
I was purchasing an FN Hi-Power (my first), and saw this classic K frame .38spl that was waning away in the display case with a paltry sum on its price tag. I didn't think this old girl deserved to spend her golden years this way.
The collector value isn't there, as the finish is deplorable, and I believe the price reflected this.
I didn't know much about this revolver (see original post), but the cylinder locked up really tight and I figured it would be fun to shoot such and old gun. If it could be cleaned up and reworked/refinished, I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
However, if I can't rework it, and it can't handle a steady diet of .38spl, I'll just clean it up as best as I can and take it to the range with cowboy loads.
More than a year ago, I bought a "challenged" 4th Change built in 1917. Mygoal was a gun similar to my family heirloom from '21.
For the $275 I spent, I shall shoot it as I please and not worry about broken parts, collectible "value" or anything else that might be suggested as an obstacle to my enjoyment of it. More than 700rds later, it's been worth every penny I spent on it.
For the $275 I spent, I shall shoot it as I please and not worry about broken parts, collectible "value" or anything else that might be suggested as an obstacle to my enjoyment of it. More than 700rds later, it's been worth every penny I spent on it.
g.willikers
New member
Just because the finish is gone doesn't mean it has no collector value.
Originality, even with flaws, counts for a lot.
Originality, even with flaws, counts for a lot.
Sure, but OP said it had a low price tag. We could make a "it's collectible" argument about any gun not currently made. If he bought it to shoot it, it doesn't matter what the community thinks should be done with the revolver. After all, it was manufactured to shoot. Respectfully, it's not a museum display relic.
In my case, I couldn't care less what he does with it, as long as he understands what he's doing with it.
The various gun forums are loaded with people who buy old guns in ignorance & have no clue that not all guns are the same, not all guns last forever, not all guns can be serviced, not all guns are equal, and that re-finishing destroys any collector value.
If he knows now that it's not a good candidate as a longterm shooter & that refinishing will eliminate whatever collector value might attach, then it's his decision on whether or not to do both.
Denis
The various gun forums are loaded with people who buy old guns in ignorance & have no clue that not all guns are the same, not all guns last forever, not all guns can be serviced, not all guns are equal, and that re-finishing destroys any collector value.
If he knows now that it's not a good candidate as a longterm shooter & that refinishing will eliminate whatever collector value might attach, then it's his decision on whether or not to do both.
Denis