My Colt just started throwing by...

D

Doug.38PR

Moderator
One of my Colt Revolvers (1961 OP) just started throwing by....occasionally (once every 2 dozen rounds or so with rapid or quickdraw fire) (Not abusive slaming the trigger back as hard as you posssibly can). I have had the gun back only almost 2 years since having this problem repaired. I am wondering if it is not the bolt spring rather than the bolt head that is wore out. Reason I say this is 1) this seems to be strange that a piece of metal should wear out after only 2 years of use (even as much as I practice with live and snap caps) and 2) the resistance of the bolt as I push it down with my finger is a lot less than my other OP that I just got back from Cylinder & Slide and even my Python that I got back from Colt a few months ago. The spring always seemed a little weaker when I had it repaired at PHH two years ago (maybe before that) but now, as I touch it it needs very little pressure from my finger to go down (but maybe it's just me).

Could this seem likely to y'all? (Does quickdraw shooting affect the bolt head to any great length?)

I am about to write a letter to send it either to Colt or PHH to have it checked. My only real concern is this:

I sent my Python off to have it's bolt replaced after getting it at a gun show where the action was as smooth as glass and as light as a feather. I got it back with the bolt fixed but the stacking was as sharp as anything I've ever felt. My my '61 OP isn't a Python, it does have some stacking, but not near like my Python now is. I DON"T WANT MY OP TO COME BACK IN THE SAME SHAPE. WHAT DO I SAY TO THEM?
 
I doubt the bolt head wore.
If the head wore to the extent you're getting throw by, you'd certainly be able to see it.

My guess is:
A dirty/gummed up action.
A weak bolt spring.
A timing problem.

To check the timing in this case, slowly cock the hammer and watch and listen for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder.
The bolt should drop into "about" the middle of the ramp that leads to the actual locking notch.
If the bolt is dropping late, (too close to the notch) you get throw by.
In the Colt, it's also possible to induce throw by with a jerky or hesitant trigger pull.

My best guess is, the timing IS off, and the bolt is dropping late.

If you return the gun to Colt, they will put the gun back into factory spec condition.
This means that if a spring is weak, the action has been smoothed up, or a part needs to be replaced, they will RETURN the gun to factory spec, which may cause the action to be not as smooth as it was.

Due to liability, they'll do this, usually even if you ask them not to do it.
You can talk to them to see what they'll do to accommodate you, or you can try Pittsburgh Handgun Headquarters or Cylinder & Slide.

If it is a bolt timing problem, and IF nothing is worn or damaged, the "fix" is something a qualified Colt gunsmith can fix in a matter of a few minutes, without affecting the feel of the action.
 
I doubt the bolt head wore.
If the head wore to the extent you're getting throw by, you'd certainly be able to see it.
Click to expand...

I don't see any chipped away area or wear on the left side of the bolt where it hits the side of each notch.

My guess is:
A dirty/gummed up action.
A weak bolt spring. (Unlikely to cause throw by)
A timing problem.

To check the timing in this case, slowly cock the hammer and watch and listen for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder.
The bolt should drop into "about" the middle of the ramp that leads to the actual locking notch.
If the bolt is dropping late, (too close to the notch) you get throw by.
In the Colt, it's also possible to induce throw by with a jerky or hesitant trigger pull.

My best guess is, the timing IS off, and the bolt is dropping late.
Click to expand...

Well it is close to the middle, but it is closer to the notch than it is to the beginning of the ramp (seems like it used to drop earlier or closer to the middle)

If you return the gun to Colt, they will put the gun back into factory spec condition.
This means that if a spring is weak, the action has been smoothed up, or a part needs to be replaced, they will RETURN the gun to factory spec, which may cause the action to be not as smooth as it was.

Due to liability, they'll do this, usually even if you ask them not to do it.
You can talk to them to see what they'll do to accommodate you, or you can try Pittsburgh Handgun Headquarters or Cylinder & Slide.

If it is a bolt timing problem, and IF nothing is worn or damaged, the "fix" is something a qualified Colt gunsmith can fix in a matter of a few minutes, without affective the feel of the action.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the better option would be to stick with PHH.

The gun is doing it more frequently the more I test it. It does it on the same notch and it's becoming more and more frequent with even a simple trigger pull at times.
 
a dirty/gummed up action
Click to expand...

Ummmmm.....I just took off the grips and sprayed up into the insides of the gun from the grip area, the hammer area and the paw area. I was using Remington Cleaning/Protection lubricant. I put the grips back on and the problem seems to have gone away....but the timing seems to be just what it was all along.

Wow this is inconsistant. Maybe the problem lubricated itself away. If so, thank you for the suggesting (I'd still like to know how lubrication per se is connected to it throwing by...as I said the timing seems to be the same)
 
One reason that lack of lubrication or the presence of dirt or grease causes trouble is that the cylinder bolt on the Colt is the front of a long shallow "V" shaped bar that pivots in the action. The rebound lever cams the back end up, pulling the bolt down out of the cylinder, then releases it at the right time to be pushed back up by its small coil spring. There is a lot going on there, and the tolerances are tight so dirt or grease in the action can interfere at times. Of course a weak spring, or the little bolt screw being tightened too tight can cause problems also. It looks like a simple mechanism at first glance, but it is really quite complex in the way parts interact.

Just FWIW, what I use for cleaning out old guns is G96 Gun Treatment. If that doesn't work, then it is time for gunk out and if that doesn't work, the screwdriver is next. It is surprising how often a good cleaning will fix Colt problems (and also how often folks trying to clean their older Colt guns CAUSE problems).

Jim
 
thank you.
I have Jerry Kuhnhusen's Colt DA Revolvers Vol. 1. I could probably gut the gun and clean it, but I wouldn't trust myself. I'd have to send it off to have it cleaned.

I'm taking the gun down to the range tomorrow with some people. I'll take the OP along with me and try it out in quickdraw, rapid fire and simple target shooting and see how it holds up.

I might still send it off to PHH to have it checked up and cleaned out. It's been over 2 years since the sideplate of that gun has been off.
 
I just went out to the range with some people this afternoon. I put about 30 rounds of standard 158 gr through the gun in rapid and point shooting. About a dozen +P Remington 158 grs and 6 Buffalo Bore +P 158 grs. The gun handled it all just fine with no problems......whatever was wrong with it is gone now, that I am sure of:o :)
 
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!@#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$%^&*()*&^%$#@#$%^&*()


I spoke too soon. It is in my hands right now and the gun just started doing it again out of nowhere!!!! Just from simple dryfiring it
:mad: :mad: :mad: :(

I don't see what the problem is. Even when I do DA slowly, and STOPPING when the bolt pops back into place and then following through with the rest of the trigger pull the bolt will throw by in the same notch. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE! It stops then it starts and then stops again and now it's back.

It isn't entirely consistant. It happens in the same notch but sometimes I can almost jerk the trigger back and other times I can just simply give it a simple trigger pull and it bounces out of the notch and throws by. Other times it is the reverse. Sometimes I can pull the trigger rapidly (not slamming it) about a dozen or two dozen times and it is just time. Then I try it one more time and it throws by in that same notch. Then I can try it again and it doesn't do it, then I can hold it upside down and it does it.

This is weird
 
If it's doing it on the same chamber, it's possible a problem with that individual locking notch, or that lug on the ejector ratchet.

I'd mark the problem chamber with some paint, and send it in to Colt along with a SHORT letter explaining the problem.
 
Colt or PHH? I'm afraid Colt will ruin the good action on the gun and send it back with a tight stack.

EDIT: It almost certainly has something to do with the bolt spring as the bolt spring JUST gave out and hardly has any resistance to it. It won't even hold the notches in place at all anymore.

I need to know something. If they replace the bolt spring with a stronger one than before, will that affect when the bolt pops back into place? Will the bolt pop into place too early before it gets to the ramp? If so, will that mean they will have to redo the whole action and replace the mainspring and bolt?
 
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The bolt timing should not be affected by a stronger spring; the bolt "pops" back up when it is released by the rebound lever. What a strong spring will do is cause the bolt to make a dent in the cylinder leade, which is why some pistolsmiths reduce the tension in the spring, trying to match the tension of the S&W cylinder stop spring. The trouble is that the Colt is not an S&W, and that Colt mechanism really requires a pretty strong bolt spring.

Quick draw shooting, or any fast DA shooting, can ruin the bolt and/or the cylinder notches. I have seen QD artists wear out Colt SAA's in a few months. I suggest slowing down a bit.

Jim
 
timing

Sir:
Jim said it best - a colt is not a Smith and Wesson. I second his remarks.
I know that fast DA firing will degrade a gun. It is my opinion (not meant to irritate you) that colt has alot of troubles. I'm sure Jim is right on the timing and my personal experience tells me your cylinder has worn lock-bolt recesses letting the bolt jump out. Ruger and S&W all have very light bolt springs because it is not necessary! It is the FIT of this and the recesses that keeps the bolt in - no spring can hold it in under the load of firing.
Timing is essential!
The lock bolt should drop in in the sloped recess leading to full lock-up in the bolt recess in the cylinder - not before! As the bolt drops in to lock the cylinder into battery and the cylinder is turning at a high speed (as in speed shooting) it will, over time, burr up the side of the lock recess, causing wear. Eventually it will also burr the frame recess where the lock-bolt rides ruining the gun. It will torque the area out of square.
I would suggest a semi-auto instead of a revolver for speed shooting as any revolver used in this manner will eventually will destroy itself.
Harry B.
 
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171120

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175500


Are y'all sure about wearing the revolver out? Considering all the responses on this old threads of mine, could it be that these people in the cases you describe were abusing instead of using? Isn't there a difference between slamming it home as fast as your finger can go backand forth and forcing the trigger back as fast as you can. As your finger gets more accustomed to the trigger resistance it is able to move it back quickly rather than slamming it through. One is a jerk and is vicious, the other is working with the gun.

In the past 3 or 4 years since I started shooting with a DA revovler I've been gradually finding this balance.

Didn't Ed McGivern prove that a revolver can shoot faster than an auto of the shooter is good enough (and still be accurate)
 
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