My ArgieFAL mag problem is close to being resolved

RickD

Moderator
We went to the range last weekend to see why 12 of my FAL mags (all from DSArms) work just fine in my Argie FAL while 8 did not (and all but one or two of the bad ones work in TimW's AzEx FAL.)

So, at the range we swapped parts. His bolt in my receiver (headspace was okay), his upper on my lower (or was it vice versa).

Nothing seemed to indicate a pattern. Then we decided to see how the magazine seated in the mag well. I noticed that nearly all of the bad mags seated poorly in my FAL but not quite so poorly in the Imbel-receivered AzEx. We found that while the front of the mag was flush against the receiver, at the rear of the mag there was a distinct gap (perhaps 3 mm or so). As well, the mag in the Argie wobbled fore to aft more than in the AzEx.

We deduced that the bad mags in my Argie were actually not so great in the AzEx either. The difference was that the greater-wobbling mags in my Argie made the situation worse.

That is, the gap from the mag (caused by what appeared to be an unrepairable bending down toward the rear of the mag) coupled with the extra wobble in the Argie, allowed the round (always in the left side of the mag) to be low enough so that the bolt would barely get a bite on the rear of the cartridge.

To test this, we removed the dust cover and installed the bolt. We put a few rounds in the magazine, installed it, and tapped the bolt carrier forward millimeter by millimeter as sort of a stop-action.

We repeatedly saw the bolt either completely miss the round and slide over, or the round would be pushed halfway and then have the bolt slide over.

What could be different between the Argie and the AzEx? We guessed that the mag catch was the problem.

We took out the mag catches in both rifles and measured all the pertainant distances. Tim's mag catch measured 0.625" from the pin hole to the catch surface. My mag catch was visibly shorter, 0.039" shorter.

So, my shorter mag release caused the borderline magazines to drop even lower.

The test would be to swap one of Tim's AzEx mag catches (Tim had installed an ambi release).

I did so tonite and found that the mags did, in fact seat tighter. And two mags that were labeled as bad, now functioned (using the stop action method described above, we will go shooting tomorrow).

The problem is that I now have ten mags that work, and ten mags that don't allow the mag catch to snap them in place (as if the catch is too long for my rifle or the mags are somehow out of spec. I measured the now-tight mags to see if I could figure out if the mags needed to be filed or the catch needed to be filed. The jury is out, so far.

I will still be returning the mags (to DSA) which have the bend toward the rear. But I think I am close to getting this thing figured out.

So, which is it? How do I figure out which needs to be filed, the mags or the catch?

Rick
 
I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure the receiver is not cut for inch pattern magazines? That would explain the slopiness with metric mags.
 
Its an Argentinian FAL. I am unaware of any inch-pattern Argies.

The receiver cuts for the inch pattern are nothing like the cuts for a metric.

The inch pattern mags have heavy steel lips on both the front and the back of the mag. The metrics have the heavy steel only in the rear where the mag catch can grap it. The metrics have a thin portion of steel comprised of the mag body itself being stamped and pushed forward.

It's metric. Trust me.

Here is the original thread...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81144&highlight=Argie+FAL+mags
 
We spent a few hours at the range today. The good mags were still good (except for one or two that would no longer fit), and the bad ones were still bad.

And all the bad ones would still fire in the AzEx rifle. The ones that would not lock in my rifle would lock in the AzEx rifle.

DSArms is supposed to be at the CrossRoads of the West gun show in Phoenix Dec 7-8. What do you think I should have Dave do to get this rifle working with all the typical mags?

At the very least, I can swap out the mags that don't work for some that I can eyeball to see if the rear of the mag is flush with the mag well (and to see if it locks).

But that doesn't really fix the problem with the rifle, it avoids it, until I am handed someone else's magazine, and I get a bolt-over malfunction.

Rick
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa......

Before you decide to replace those mags, can you get access to the Imbel again?

I also have an Imbel, and I've been closely studying it tonite in regards to your problem.

Do think it could be at all related to the front dimple in the receiver, thus causing trouble with the rear catch? I'm thinking that perhaps your front dimple is a little lower, a little deeper, or somehow else out-of-spec?

I'd carry both the mags and the upper to DSArms. Call ahead of time and see if they can have a guy in-the-know there to meet you.
 
Now I'm going to assume that this FAL is 100% Argentine, including receiver? Bet that cost a few bucks.

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an Argentine parts kit on an Imbel receiver, since some Imbels do have Inch cut mag wells.

Now then, are the little punched out protrustions on the magwells in good shape or do they look abused?
 
Yep. 100% Argie with matching serial numbers.

The dimples look to be in good repair.

I am going over the the proud owner of the Imbel-based FAL tonite. I'll mic mine and his.

The last time DSArms was at the gun show, it was Dave S. himself manning the table.

I hope I can get this thing fixed. Thanks for your input.

Rick
 
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