My Answer

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Model12Win

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We all know the recent events in Europe perpetrated by Muslim extremists. We also know that Muslim extremists aren't just in Europe.

Friends, this is my answer:

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As an American, it makes me proud that I can not only post this (#freedomofspeach) but I can also OWN this (#2ndamendmentftw. My heart soars when I think about the right that we have as Americans, and how blessed we are to live in this great nation. There is unpleasantness afoot in the world, all over the world, to say the least. It is a wonderful thing that we as Americans can take up arms when they are needed. Most of you reading this probably feel the same.

As gun owners and as AMERICANS, we should all unite. I'd love to see your "answers" too. :)

Estot vigilans.

Take care everyone!
 
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Well, being a resident of the Peoples' Republik of New-Yorkistan, I am not allowed to own a Freedom dispenser such as yours you have posted a pic of.

But here is a couple of pics of one of my favorite toys. If the bullet doesnt hit em, the blast will give them a concussion! LOL!


 
*edit* - just realized I'm in the rifle forum. Oh well, enjoy the pics anyway :)

Not much will stand in the way of a magnum 12 gauge slug from this 590 Mariner with extended tube.

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When the slugs run out, perhaps some 125 grain pills will do the trick from the 686

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As an American, you do see the irony of posting a pic of a German gun (or us made copy of a German gun)?

I get it, you are proud of it. I had one (HK91) until I got my M1A. If you are going to wave the flag, wave it over a gun with an entirely US history, there are plenty of great ones to choose from.

If you believe in the concept, as the Founding Fathers did, everyone has natural rights, or if you prefer, God given rights. Where our Founders showed a brilliance not matched by any other nation or society was to construct a government which was restricted by its own law from interfering with certain enumerated rights.

And, despite over 200 years of hard work by a LOT of people those restrictions on what our government MAY NOT DO, have not been COMPLETELY overturned, yet.

Absolutely, the rest of the world is in poor shape, violence is rampant, but this has always been the case, from the days when it was done with sword, axes, bows and spear to today.

We haven't had a shooting war in the USA since the 1860s. Europe cannot say that. The Middle East cannot say that. Asia cannot say that. Africa and South American cannot say that. Even the pacific Islands cannot say that.

Sorry for the rant, it has no place in the Art of the Rifle. So, I'm moving this to general, where everyone can get a shot in, before it gets locked. :D
 
I'm a Vietnam combat veteran, American's will never lose, its something inside, we might get knocked down sometimes but were never out. This is a tuff fight to fight, when your enemy hides in the shadows, targets unarmed people. Let's not give them that edge! Be Ready .
 
Before the HK can be an answer, it needs to be with you when you need it. I doubt that in any of the scenarios in France, that a long gun would have been there, in the hands of a civilian, even if it was legal to do so. Terrorist seek out "soft targets" as their victims. A room full of HKs is not considered a soft target and would be very low on their list of priorities.

I have many answers to the threat of violence. Each has it's advantages and appropriate place. That's all one needs to know.
 
44 Amp....not a shooting war in the US since the 1860s....now you are forgetting history. Besides numerous Indian wars there was a world war that was fought on American soil or did you forget Pearl Harbor and the Aleutians just to name two.
 
As well as Guam, Wake Island, the Philippines, shelling of California coast by Japanese submarines, and the entire eastern seaboard of the US came under U-Boat attack. Lots of tourist beaches were fouled with oil from torpedoed tankers for the duration of the war, and some ships were sunk in sight of shore.

One theater of the war on terror has been waged here at home for some decades, now, to bring things into the present day.
 
I will admit, somehow the Indian wars slipped my mind. I do not know why. I did deliberately omit the battles at sea and US Territories, I was focused on the continental US, (my argument, my rules:rolleyes:).

And I did know about the single shelling of a CA refinery by a single IJN sub. (have found no other documented attacks) My information indicated it was the Captain of that sub that ordered the attack, not the High Command, as the Captain had toured the refinery before the war, and torn his uniform on some cactus. Since they were now at war, he decided to "redeem his honor".

Can't be certain its true, but it makes a good story.
The main point I was focused on was war that involved the bulk of the population, not just the militaries fighting. Europe, with nations invading each other back and forth for the bulk of the past century, Asia, and the other continents essentially doing the same thing.

Civil wars, and wars brought by neighboring nations, MUCH more common in the rest of the world than in the US in the last century and a half.
 
I posted this in response to the OP's same post over on THR.

Its not so much about the weapons you have, but the weapons you have on you "ALWAYS", and the will to use them.......



I just got this in an email from Suarez, and I think he has the most realistic outlook and approach on this, something that seems to be heavily frowned upon on in a lot of these types of discussions in the various forums.

Like it or not, I do believe he has a better grasp on reality than those who recommend/demand this is only about "defense". Its not.

There is nothing defensive about any of this, nor should there be in your response.

Here's the email.......

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"Look at the image above. A harsh image filled with blood and the dead. It has been all over the news and we know all about the "who, why, and how". We also know that it is only a matter of time before we have a similar party here in the USA. In fact, president is giving them a free airplane ride - some 10,000 of them - and a place to live right in your town.

Recently Shepard Smith mentioned that we could not "change who we are" with regards to these people and with reference to welcoming them and giving them refuge. Well Shepard, I think it is high time we change who we are before it kills us.

To the readers, I think the following will not be new, but it is what we have been saying now for several years.

1). The authorities cannot really protect you. Not because they are inept, but simply because of the sheer numbers involved and because it is impossible to know a man or small group's intentions if they do not share it.

2). You have a group of people, united by a religious-political ideology, that stands in complete opposition to any modernity, or liberty, and that has proven its adherents can kill easily and without remorse, that has openly said they hate you and plan to kill you. I know the president thinks they are kidding, but do you think they are kidding?

3). The enemy has shown and learned that it is far easier to use conventional weapons (firearms) rather than dirty bombs, or large scale explosives.

4). At the end of the discussion, it might be you who is there at ground zero. Probably by happenstance. It is simple. If you are armed, you have a chance. If you are not armed, not so much. So I want to discuss the ethos of this type of shooting. Hopefully to get our collective minds right about this ASAP. Today may be your day.

First off, I can't emphasize enough that THIS IS NOT A DEFENSIVE SHOOTING. This is premeditated, proactive killing of a terrorist, hopefully by surprise and unannounced, and preferably in the back of the head.

In reactive situations your first priority is not getting shot, with shooting the adversary as a secondary concern. This involves moving dynamically. Drawing and shooting while doing so. Less thought to precision accuracy or to after event liability, and more focus on "I AM NOT GOING TO DIE HERE...****!!!!"

It may be that way, but it may not be if you have not been directly engaged by the terrorists. In that case what we are referring to is vastly different.

Proactive situations have two aspects. Marksmanship and the will to kill. Will you be excited? Sure but it won't be the reactive-terrified "defense outside the home situation that 99% of US gun training focuses on. If you have hunted...or better, poached, you understand the concept. Position yourself so you have the advantage. Don't allow the animal to see you. Stillness with tension selectively...like a spring. Weapon is up...sights aligned...steady...steady...trigger.

So...leave the sissy pocket pistol at home and carry a full size fighting pistol with several magazines. Ignore the sign that says you shouldn't carry it. Live your life and enjoy it...but know this - there are people out there who hate you and will do their best to kill you and anyone with you simply because you are an American or a Christian. The best defense is not defense, it is a brutal and violent counter attack. If you take a defensive attitude into this fight, you will fail and you will die.

Transmission ends."

Feel free to comment on this at Warriortalk.

http://www.warriortalk.com/forum.php?
 
I'm struggling to find a connection between refugees and a forum devoted to guns.
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Your right, move along, nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Hmmm, dead people on the floor of a theater, et al, shot with "guns" by some, who snuck into France as "refugees".

I sorta kinda see a connection, especially from the standpoint of the OP, or as to the purpose of his choice, and what I suppose we are supposed to assume he intends to do with it.
 
RIDE-RED 350r said:
Well, being a resident of the Peoples' Republik of New-Yorkistan, I am not allowed to own a Freedom dispenser such as yours you have posted a pic of.

But here is a couple of pics of one of my favorite toys. If the bullet doesnt hit em, the blast will give them a concussion! LOL!


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Lol being that your from the people's republic, I wouldn't post pics of that beautiful .460. The fine folks in Albany might declare that a destructive device and make you turn it into the sheriffs department.....Lol better move to Pennsyltucky here amigo, very very gun friendly :)
 
We have home-grown terrorists who like to blow up federal buildings and burn down churches. We're doing just fine all by ourselves. We have groups of people who's sworn purpose is to intimidate other people and keep them in their place. I think all of those people consider themselves conservative and even in some cases to maintaining the status quo. I almost cringe when some people begin throwing words like liberty and freedom around.
 
I tend to be rather conservative in my comments but I wouldn't go that far.

I gather that a lot of the shootings were of the drive-by variety.
 
Even if there were armed people in the attacks in Paris, it is more likely they will do more harm than good.
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Ask the people laying on that floor in the above pic if they feel the same. Oh, wait. You cant. ;)

I have to wonder sometimes, with some of the comments you hear by those who do carry, where their heads really are, and if they really have them in the game, when it comes time to really need what they have. Do we really understand whats involved in a violent confrontation, and do we really have what it takes, to deal with it, if and when, in the unfortunate circumstance, we find ourselves faced with it.

You often hear comments that just having the gun often stops things, and that many who do so, have no training what so ever. OK, in some cases, that may well be, but do you think that someone like that, would have done well in the above case? Would you?

Do you practice realistically regularly? Does bullseye shooting prepare you for the above? Have you considered that "defense", while what, by definition, is what you would more or less be doing, is not in fact, what your response should be, while doing so. If youre thinking defensively, then you are likely to die, as Suarez points out.


To put things in another perspective. When you were a kid, and in a schoolyard fight (I may be dating myself here. We still had them. :)), were you trying your best to keep the other kid from hitting you, and "defending" yourself, or once the fight was obviously going to happen, were you doing your best and trying to devastate them, to the best of your ability, before they ever had a chance to do so? Theres nothing different here now, just higher stakes for the looser.
 
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