My 1st 40 S&W Loads - Finally

[markr6754]

I finally got to complete some loads for the 40 S&W after my Redding Sizing Die problem was resolved.

Beretta PX4 Storm
6 - 10 rnd loads using once fired Federal brass, Remington 1 1/2 SPP, and Berry’s 155gr Plated Flat Point bullets, all at 1.125” C.O.L.

Silhouette 6.5gr, 6.7gr, and 6.9gr
Could have stopped at 6.5gr...it was mild, accurate, a pleasure to shoot. 6.7gr was a bit more recoil, not snappy at all, just heavier, still accurate, and also a pleasure to shoot. Let’s just say that 6.9gr was closest to factory WWB 165gr ammo. It was fine...harder recoil, say, a man’s recoil, but not at all necessary given the decent shooting from the first two loads. I’m definitely loading more 6.5gr Silhouette, and may even give 6.6gr a try. For plinking, I don’t need more than that.

VV 3N37 7.6gr, 7.7gr, and 7.8gr
Right off the bat, the Vihtavuori loads were much harder loads than any of the Silhouette loads. 7.6gr shot well, nice groups, and not unpleasant to shoot, but I’d need a compelling reason to load this over Silhouette. The other 2 loads were just a bit much. Even the 7.8gr was shootable, but definitely attention getting. I’d prefer to shoot the factory ammo than shoot VV 3N37 higher than 7.6gr. In fact, I’m considering dropping the load a bit, perhaps even to 7.3gr, and work back to 7.6gr to see what shoots well, and does not hurt.

I have several other powders to try...but liking Silhouette as much as I did, I’m not sure when or why I’d do so.

I wasn’t a fan of Silhouette in .380ACP, 9mm, or even .45ACP. I’m just wondering if it wasn’t developed with .40 S&W in mind.

Probably most amazing to me...no FTF, no cycling issues, no light primer strikes or high primers, just a really nice shooting experience. Nearly every spent case recovered.

Thoughts!

 

[Nick_C_S]

It's always nice to hear when a loader declares a success. Well done.

Do you have a chronograph? If your goal is to just make range ammo and you like what you have made, it's not necessary. But a chronograph brings you data that has a way of becoming indispensable. Also, loaders have a strong tendency to expand their goals once they get established with their basic range fodder.

I’m just wondering if it (Silhouette) wasn’t developed with .40 S&W in mind.

I don't know about the 40 S&W specifically; but I'm sure it was tailored for modern semi-auto's.

Silhouette is good stuff. No arguing that. It's at an excellent burn rate range for your application - and other "nearby" applications. But I am curious why you chose specifically Silhouette? It's a flash-suppressed propellant; which is generally superfluous for range fodder. Was it just happenstance, of was it a characteristic you were looking for? Not that it's all that critical one way or another. I'm just curious.

If you like Silhouette; you might want to try AA#5. Similar burn rate range; but not flash suppressed. Meters really really nice. Good stuff.

I'm also curious if you have considered heavier bullets? 165's shoot nice in the 40. 180's run real consistent too; but are a little more pressure touchy and less forgiving; and moving to a slightly slower propellant is needed for max performance.

 

[markr6754]

Silhouette is good stuff. No arguing that. It's at an excellent burn rate range for your application - and other "nearby" applications. But I am curious why you chose specifically Silhouette? It's a flash-suppressed propellant; which is generally superfluous for range fodder. Was it just happenstance, of was it a characteristic you were looking for?

Actually, I thought of Silhouette for several reasons - it’s the slowest burning powder I have, I have several pounds of it, and there was load data for a Berry’s bullet of the same weight in the Western Powders load book. I also remembered I didn’t care much for Silhouette in 9mm and .380ACP, but I didn’t mind it in .45 ACP. I was hoping to hit a sweet spot in my first .40S&W loads. I feel that I did.

I don’t have any other 40S&W bullets at the moment. It’s been recommended that I try to get some 165gr or even 180gr bullets. I will, just not at the moment. I’m far over budget for my starting year of reloading.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I also remembered I didn’t care much for Silhouette in 9mm and .380ACP, but I didn’t mind it in .45 ACP.

I would have rather expected the opposite observation - works well in 9mm; but not so much in 45ACP. My expectation is why I mentioned in my first post that Silhouette was likely developed for modern semi-autos. I don't consider 45ACP "modern" in this context. It's a large caliber, low pressure chambering; tending toward faster propellants compared to all the other semi-auto cartridges out there.

Of course, variables abound (bullet weight, for starters) with modern 1911's and the like being designed for considerably more pressure than the firearms of old. So before anybody roasts me in this thread , I do realize that 45ACP has moved into the 21st century. It's far and away my favorite semi-auto cartridge; not baggin' in it in any way. I just put it in a slightly different genre than 9mm, 357Sig, 10mm, 40S&W, etc. because of the pressure differences.

Regarding your experience with 9mm/Silhouette: Care to share? I'm curious what bullet weight you were using? Bullet weight makes a huge difference to a propellant's burn rate characteristic.

 

[kmw1954]

I believe I was one of those that suggested to Mark to try the Silhouette back when he was just starting because he was using plated bullets and Western seemed to have the most data that I could find using plated bullets. Also I am using it with great results in all three of those calibers.

I bought it because of the flash suppressant because we shoot a lot of indoor ranges also because it's slower than HP-38 but slightly faster than AA#5. Also though I have not been able to verify because I don't have a chrono, or a place to set one up, from the data I've seen the Silhouette also produces faster bullet speeds than the same load of AA#5.

As of right now it is the only powder I'm using in 380 with a 100gr plated bullet, use it equally in 9mm with HP-38 and 115 and 124gr plated bullets and with 200gr 45acp.

So as for now my 2 primary powders are HP-38 and Silhouette and have just recently added some AA#2 but haven't shot enough of it yet to make a fair evaluation in these 3 calibers.

 

[markr6754]

To be perfectly honest, I have no confidence in any of the loads I developed during my first 8 months of reloading. I was learning on the go, and received lots of encouragement and support from many on this and other sites. Kevin (kmw1954) was one of the first to offer advice vs criticism, and also made a lot of recommendations re: powders and loads. That said, the end result is all my responsibility. I couldn’t crimp for beans, my primers were always a mess (numerous high primers, luckily, no mishaps). While still a neophyte, I have greatly improved my skills..better cleaning, better sizing, better priming, better powder weight fidelity, significant improvement in crimping...though I still have to work on this.
So forget any disparagement of Silhouette. My guess is I under charged and overcrimped, plus the priming scenario. I also was breaking in new pistols at the same time.
My plan is to start from scratch, going back to the drawing board and restarting.
Silhouette in 40S&W is pleasing to me. Others have continued to sing its praises in the smaller cartridges. Given that everyone loves it but me, I’m the problem.
Oh...one other thing I forgot...I took a shooting class where it was pointed out that my grip was all wrong. Since correcting my grip my shooting has dramatically improved. My evaluation of my early loads was primarily based on how accurate they were.

 

[kmw1954]

Mark I've always enjoyed chatting with you and I'm sure if we lived closer to each other I would enjoy shooting with you too.

In all honesty I have to admit that my favorite powder for 9mm has to be HP-38 for many reasons followed by Silhouette. Both have worked terrifically with everything I've tried it with. From starting loads to near max loads. Both meter exceptionally well in both my Lee measures and they fill the cases to a point that it's easy to see if one was missed and a double charge barely fits. Unfortunately I don't really care for the HP-38 in the 380 Auto or the 45 Auto.

In the 380 Auto I just wasn't getting the accuracy with the HP-38 and in the 45acp we are getting a lot of muzzle flash that no one else seems to notice. I know from reading the forums that many are using HP-38 in the 45acp. So why we are seeing this flash I don't know.

Then as I mentioned I get good results with AA#5 but I can do the same thing with Silhouette but only using a bit less powder and a lot less smoke when we shoot indoors.

Lastly I haven't tried loading cast lead for any of the Autos because I'm not ready to fight that fight from everything I've read on the subject over at Cast Boolits. Though I may try some in the 45 and the 380 as they do not seem to be as problematic as the 9mm.

Now I also keep looking at a 40S&W but can't seen to jump off the fence as I've really come to like my 45acp Witness. Though a 40 Witness, XD Mod2 or M&P Shield may be down the road.

 

[Road_Clam]

To be perfectly honest, I have no confidence in any of the loads I developed during my first 8 months of reloading. I was learning on the go, and received lots of encouragement and support from many on this and other sites. Kevin (kmw1954) was one of the first to offer advice vs criticism, and also made a lot of recommendations re: powders and loads. That said, the end result is all my responsibility. I couldn’t crimp for beans, my primers were always a mess (numerous high primers, luckily, no mishaps). While still a neophyte, I have greatly improved my skills..better cleaning, better sizing, better priming, better powder weight fidelity, significant improvement in crimping...though I still have to work on this.

We've all been there. Anyone who brags they never made any handloading goofs is just plain lying. Handloading is a deep learning curve and certain aspects you simply have to learn by failure, method assessment, and then admirable success. I've made a LOT of mistakes, still do occasionally. Here's a funny reminder thread that I saw you posted a reply just for reference :

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=597605