Does anybody have any experience with blackpowder/Pyrodex loads with a smokeless powder mix? I have seen somewhere about using a small amount of smokeless with the above. How much smokeless? Fast burning vs. slow? What ratio? Is it safe? Is there too much pressure? I have done it in my .45 cal. rifle with using 4gr. of Titgroup,3 30gr. Pyrodex pellets behind a 220 grain sabot bullet and found it great for making the gun go Bang with no hanging fire at the hammer drop. Am I pushing the envelop doing this? Might I loose my eyesight? Does TFL have a blackpowder forum, why not?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Muzzloader Hybred loads
- Thread starter rlgarman
- Start date
I've wondered about this but don't see an advantage to a load that is mostly pyrodex. I was thinking of a small amount of black, followed by the main charge of a powder that would simulate FFGs pressure and velocity. My thinking is to use the small "priming" charge of black to ignite the hard to light smokeless with the result being black powder ballistics with smokeless clean up. I've been to cautious to try it though. Still worried about the differences in the pressure curve between the two powders.
This is a very conservative and safety oriented reply.
My black powder experience goes back to 1969 and has only been with traditional percussion and flintlock muzzle loaders, not with any of the new in-line rifles.
Back in the days when the transition from black to smokeless powders was being made there were some powders known as bulk powders. They havn't been around for 40-50 years. Suppossedly you could use them for the purpose that you suggest,but they just are not available(actually they were for shotguns).
If you are using a traditional muzzle loader stick to black powder or pyrodex for your eye's and hands sake, let alone for the rifle's sake. You just don't know what your doing when you use smokeless in a muzzleloader. Don't believe the old wife's tales that you can't blow-up a muzzleloader, they are subject to the same laws of physics as anyother firearm.
Now adding to the confusion, this year Savage announced an in-line rifle that can use smokeless. Maybe so,but that only applies to that particular rifle.
Better safe than sorry!
My black powder experience goes back to 1969 and has only been with traditional percussion and flintlock muzzle loaders, not with any of the new in-line rifles.
Back in the days when the transition from black to smokeless powders was being made there were some powders known as bulk powders. They havn't been around for 40-50 years. Suppossedly you could use them for the purpose that you suggest,but they just are not available(actually they were for shotguns).
If you are using a traditional muzzle loader stick to black powder or pyrodex for your eye's and hands sake, let alone for the rifle's sake. You just don't know what your doing when you use smokeless in a muzzleloader. Don't believe the old wife's tales that you can't blow-up a muzzleloader, they are subject to the same laws of physics as anyother firearm.
Now adding to the confusion, this year Savage announced an in-line rifle that can use smokeless. Maybe so,but that only applies to that particular rifle.
Better safe than sorry!
Tremendous difference in the performance of smokeless and black powder. The long and short of it is that there is currently only one muzzle loading rifle on the market that will use smokeless powder, a model by Savage. Black powder and smokeless powder have totally different burning characteristics. If you use smokeless powder in your muzzle loader you will most likely hurt yourself and/or those around you. Please don't do it.
For a contrary view, you might wish to see what Paco Kelly says in this "Sixgun Chronicles" article:
http://www.sixgunner.com/paco/pprofile11.htm
There is a section on using TINY quantities of Bullseye over the primer and under the BP load as a "starter" for BP loads. About HALF a grain or so.
As for a BP forum, there is a cowboy action shooting forum, which is about as close to a BP forum there is here. Try using the search function to find posts on BP.
http://www.sixgunner.com/paco/pprofile11.htm
There is a section on using TINY quantities of Bullseye over the primer and under the BP load as a "starter" for BP loads. About HALF a grain or so.
As for a BP forum, there is a cowboy action shooting forum, which is about as close to a BP forum there is here. Try using the search function to find posts on BP.
Hybred loads in a BP rifle
The rifle I am using is a 45cal. H&R that I bought about 30yrs ago. It is just a H&R shotgun with a breech plug, modern steel and plently of it. Seems to be very accurate, an "inline before its time". But, I confess, I have upped the smokeless charge to the point that the nipple blew out of the breech plug and bent the firing pin. I wonder how the Savage deals with the pressure coming back out of the nipple. Those nipples have a big hole considering the pressure that smokeless powder generates. That is why I was wondering if a slower powder would work better.
Griz, I use the smokeless first because it seems to be easyier to ignite, no "hang time" compared to any BP or Pyrodex charge I had used. All smokeless would be great, if it would be safe. Thanks for the replies.
The rifle I am using is a 45cal. H&R that I bought about 30yrs ago. It is just a H&R shotgun with a breech plug, modern steel and plently of it. Seems to be very accurate, an "inline before its time". But, I confess, I have upped the smokeless charge to the point that the nipple blew out of the breech plug and bent the firing pin. I wonder how the Savage deals with the pressure coming back out of the nipple. Those nipples have a big hole considering the pressure that smokeless powder generates. That is why I was wondering if a slower powder would work better.
Griz, I use the smokeless first because it seems to be easyier to ignite, no "hang time" compared to any BP or Pyrodex charge I had used. All smokeless would be great, if it would be safe. Thanks for the replies.
Buford Boone
New member
Asking for trouble.
You are asking for trouble by mixing powders.
I blew up a H&R single barrel shotgun when I was 16. They had to remove the left side of the receiver from my left arm. I am not only lucky to have an arm, but lucky to be alive.
If you want easy clean-up, try Clean Shot, or Clear Shot. I have tried one of them (don't remember which, but think it was Clean Shot) and it worked very well for me.
Life is too short to take risks like that. If you are not convinced, keep going and take yourself out of the genepool.
You are asking for trouble by mixing powders.
I blew up a H&R single barrel shotgun when I was 16. They had to remove the left side of the receiver from my left arm. I am not only lucky to have an arm, but lucky to be alive.
If you want easy clean-up, try Clean Shot, or Clear Shot. I have tried one of them (don't remember which, but think it was Clean Shot) and it worked very well for me.
Life is too short to take risks like that. If you are not convinced, keep going and take yourself out of the genepool.
There are a number of experienced long-range blackpowder cartridge shooters who, when not in official competition, mix up some "duplex" loads. This usually involves just a few grains of slow burning smokeless near the primer for greater ignition. However, as the above posts state, I would not mess with mixing powders, especially as a beginner, as you could have catastrophic results.
Take care
Noban
Take care
Noban